Timothy: You’re a thief but I don’t know which one you are.
Intro: Welcome to the Consider Podcast where we turn our minds to consider wisdom, madness and folly. Join the host Timothy and Jacob on a quest to have God enlighten the mind according to verse 25 of Ecclesiastes chapter 7. So, I turned my mind to understand. To investigate and to search out wisdom and the scheme of things and to understand the stupidity of wickedness and the madness of folly. Ecclesiastes 7:25. The Consider Podcast examining today’s events and Paulorrow’s realities at www.consider.info.
Timothy: How’s it going today, Jacob?
Jacob: It’s going good.
Timothy: We’re going to talk about the two thieves that were crucified next to Jesus. Jesus is right in the middle and on each side of him was a thief. And we’re all thieves. Problem is we need to discover which thief we are. Let’s go to Luke chapter 23 verse 35. And we’re going to come up on the scene here where Jesus is on the cross, and there’s a thief on the left and on the right and of course there’s soldiers or the police, and then there’s religious leaders and those who make the law. And the rulers and everybody there’s this huge scene going on here as Jesus is being crucified. The first few words are, “The people stood watching.” There’s just that’s kind of the whole world in terms of the majority where people are just kind of standing around watching Christian or watching people live their religious lives. They’re enthralled by it or spooked by it or it’s just differ. They’re not sure what’s going on.
So often you’ll see documentaries on Amish communities or the Mormon Church or this over there. So, you’ve got people constantly looking at other groups and events and things that are going on. I call them “the mob”. So, you’ve got the mob standing around. Examining and looking. But then it goes to talk about that certain individuals begin to do certain things. Jacob, go and read Luke 23:35, and then will stop at that point and discuss it.
Jacob: “The people stood watching and the rulers even sneered at him. They said, “He saved others; let him save himself if he is the Christ of God, the chosen One.””
Timothy: So, you got the mob standing around and you got the rulers sneering Just kind of looking down on Jesus. Contempt for the cross. Today we see this a lot where people are laughing at what Jesus did. We see it in our movies. It’s just kind of a sneer comes out of different ways. Can you think of a different way to describe a sneer, Jacob?
Jacob: Well, a sneer sounds like an evil intent. Like you’re, you’re like you’re just like sneering. I don’t know.
Timothy: That’s a good point that that you’ve got some type of victory here you’re laughing. It’s a weird kind of laugh obviously demonic in nature, but you’re laughing that somebody else is suffering that they’re powerless. All those things that go on where they’re looking down on you. And so, the rulers even sneered, they went beyond just standing there. In verse 36, the soldiers we would call them the police or eventually our soldiers maybe marching in our streets. “But the soldiers also came up and mocked him.” So, they didn’t just stand there and with the mob so to speak just kind of watching, they wanted to actively participate in the destruction of Jesus in the torment of him.
I remember when we were going through the hate crime that was sponsored by Seattle, there I got emails from the prosecutors. As I tried to communicate the truth to them, they would write back and say that they are happy and I’m quoting them, “They are happy to use the full force and weight of their power to inflict the damage that they’re doing.” So, you find this when they rulers come up against the message of the cross, because Christians are the humble ones in the land. The Christians are the ones being crucified with Jesus, they’re the ones that are naked and exposed. To just even in now to live the Christian life, you really just stand out. Simply just to say a man is a man and a woman is a woman and so on. Just basic things now.
You can get pretty much physically things done to you. Certainly, you can lose jobs. People are being fired. There’s this whole sneering part where the worldly are salivating to put you on a cross and I’m talking either worldly Christians or worldly individuals. They’re just looking at this and they’re mocking. The soldiers are coming up. They’re making fun of him. And not only in that in verse 36, what was it they offered Jesus, Jacob?
Jacob: They offered him wine vinegar.
Timothy: Wine vinegar, which obviously just from the name of it has a very bitter taste to it. I guess it did have a numbing effect, but it also created a great deal of bitterness. So, they’re adding to the pain and the suffering. Remember that when we went through the hate crime Jacob that it was not weird but it was not unexpected either whereas the hate crime began to take its steps and motions, nobody linted and backed off. Nobody said oh they’re in a lot of pain or they’re going through a lot of suffering. I don’t remember anybody doing that. Do you?
Jacob: No.
Timothy: No. Instead, what happened? Go ahead.
Jacob: Well, only because we actually didn’t specifically go over it. In 35 and I don’t only because we didn’t go over what the rulers because the rulers are mocking him. We didn’t actually specifically I think kind of note that. They’re sort of, he saved others. Let him save himself. So, they’re like using the good things that Jesus did and they’re twisting it and then they don’t know, their hearts are hard so they don’t know what’s going on. They don’t even, but I just want to make sure we actually even kind of mention because we kind of skimmed over that part of it before we went on to the soldiers.
Timothy: No, I’m glad you do that because I tend to move a little bit too fast. So, they said, “He saved others. Let him save himself if he is the Christ of God the chosen one.” So now yeah that’s a good point. There is this quality where everybody wants you to prove that you’re with God. Mm hmm. That God doesn’t leave you hanging in all of this suffering. God doesn’t put you through all these things. So, if you really were of God your church wouldn’t be going through that. So, it’s an opposite effect. It’s like I never have yeah, I’ve yet to have anybody come to me and go, I think you’re right. I think you’re a Christian church because of all the slander and all the persecution and all the things you go through.
So, the same thing with Jesus. They’re not coming up to Jesus and going oh I see you’re up on the cross. I see the suffering you’re going through. I see the thorns on your head. I see all the whippings you went through. You’re really of God. They just don’t say that.
Jacob: Well intriguing today too.
Timothy: Go ahead.
Jacob: Oh no, I was just going to say well even churches today like even from like our hate crime or other situations that happen. For some reason there’s this even in churches like well you must be guilty. Like if this is happening to you….
Timothy: Sure, nobody assumes you’re innocent.
Jacob: Nobody assumes you’re innocent. But then because nobody actually believes that you will be persecuted as a Christian and they’re not being persecuted and they all want to be persecuted. So then if they see persecution happening, they would be like oh well you must be wrong. I don’t know.
Timothy: No, you’re bringing up a good point. In fact, you covered three or four different kinds of people. The main one I think is most people just don’t want to be persecuted for Jesus and that’s just a part of being of Jesus. You don’t want to lose your church or your ministry, your comfortable life, or being blessed by God, that’s certainly a large segment of it. In fact, all of these Christian churches were facing whatever persecution God had in mind for them, they wouldn’t turn and look at me and go, well, you’re not of God because they would be going through same thing.
The only reason people think this is because they’re not being persecuted for Christ. Otherwise, there’s familiar ground. I can recognize when somebody is being persecuted or even prosecuted for righteousness’ sake. It’s not that hard to spot. But we’re darkened. We just stand there. We let as the rulers sneer then everybody’s looking around going, oh look, the rulers are sneering. There must be something there.
Jacob: Yeah.
Timothy: I know the false charges that King County prosecutors of Seattle kicked in. They did it for shock and awe. They just because we wanted to go to trial because we wanted the truth come out. They just piled on more and more charges because they were relying on the charge itself to confirm that well we must be guilty otherwise we wouldn’t have put forth the charge. Had nothing to do with facts, had nothing to do with truth obviously. So, it’s a weird form of flogging or piercing or smearing. Were you going to say something?
Jacob: No.
Timothy: Okay, you keep me from pressing on.
Jacob: Okay, sure.
Timothy: We didn’t cover that specifics and we can hash that out if you’re wrong but so far you’ve been batting 100 on that one. Alright, Luke 26 verse 36. “The soldiers also came up and mocked him. They offered him wine vinegar and watch out for the kindness of the world.” It’s always going to have a bad aftertaste if you take it.
Jacob: Oh well, each group of these people are sort of rubbing it in or they’re making it worse in their own way. Like the rulers have their version of it right? Then the soldiers have what they’re going to say and then we’re going to keep going of course and talk about others. But it’s interesting.
Timothy: Excellent point. Each one whatever power plane they’re on and whatever they’re able to do they harness it not for any amount of compassion. It’s not even close. They are pouring more and more contempt and suffering on the situation. That was, I can’t say I was surprised but that was one of the kind of the most telling aspects that there is this sinful mob kind of thing. And I’m talking about anybody who’s not fooling Jesus Christ. This is going to well up. I think of one or two people that actually said yeah, I feel sorry for what you’re going through and that kind of thing, but they know, they don’t step up to the plate to stand next to Jesus. And that kind of thing everybody else wherever their power level is at they come in with that to torment the situation. Luke chapter 23 verse 37 said, “And said, the soldiers also repeated, “If you are the king of the Jews save yourself.”” Now what’s the repeated refrain that’s being said here Jacob?
Jacob: If you are the king of the Jews.
Timothy: That is true. In connection with that though, what is it they each one so far is demanding happen?
Jacob: That Jesus save himself, because that would prove it. If he said, but that’s their version. That’s what they want to see happen to prove to them.
Timothy: It is in a weird way a salvation call. Because I’m going to tweak that just a little bit. They saw Jesus do the miracles. They knew Lazarus was walking around alive from the dead. So, I don’t know about the proof territory. I think it more they didn’t like who Jesus is they didn’t like what he represented they hated the message of the cross. And so, what they’re saying is, “Save himself from the cross.” Now they’re taunting him to doubt who he is, but what they’re really saying is, “Get down off that cross and let’s see you get away from the suffering.” See, they say in verse 35, “He saved others.” So, in a weird kind of way, they are acknowledging his power. That’s an amazing statement. Let’s back up to verse 35. Because you bring up a good point?
“The people stood watching, and the rulers even sneered at him and they said, “He saved others.”” By your words you’ll be condemned. And by your words, you’ll be acquitted. They are acknowledging in a sly kind of way. They don’t realize what’s going on. That he really is the Christ. That he had the power. That he did do these good things. There was no denying those things were going on. You can ignore them but you can’t and then you can pour contempt on them but they’re there. “He saved others; let him save himself if he is the Christ God the Chosen One.”” So, there’s a salvation message going on here and this is going to be important as we get down into the scriptures. So, the soldiers also come up. They offering the wine vinegar and then they say, “If you’re the king of the Jews”, what? “Save yourself”. It’s, always save yourself from the cross.
Verse 38, “There was written a notice above him which read, “This is the king of the Jews.”” Now we get into the thieves. You’ve got, I don’t know which side they were on, but you got one thief on one side and another thief on the other side. Jacob, read Luke chapter 23 verse 39.
Jacob: “One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him; “Aren’t you the Christ? Save yourself and us.”
Timothy: He’s acknowledging too that Jesus is the Christ. When he says, “Aren’t you the Christ”, he’s not asking to prove to me that you’re the Christ. You see what I’m saying there?
Jacob: Yeah, I see what you’re saying. It’s not a question because he actually doesn’t know, it’s another like mock. Aren’t you the Christ? Like come on. Like, I’ve heard of you. I’ve heard that you did stuff. What’s going on? What’s come on?
Timothy: Yeah, and you clearly got the power. You could do this if you want. And what is he asking for Jesus? He’s asking for Jesus to be saved. It is a church salvation call. “Save yourself and us.” Now this bad thief is asking to be saved from the cross. And that’s an important key point. So, there’s a lot of people going forward to come to Jesus because they want something from him. They want to escape some of the suffering that’s in their life. Or some of the pain that they feel. They want God to bless them in a worldly kind of blessing way. So, he’s saying, save me. Save yourself and us. He tries to pull in the selfishness on both angles. We’ll go ahead and read verse 40 there, Jacob.
Jacob: “But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God.” he said, “since you are under the same sentence?”
Timothy: “But the other criminal rebuked him.” We’ve talked about this a little bit in the past, so we’re going to press on unless you think I’m not being specific enough. “Don’t you fear God”, he said, “since you are under the same sentence.” Verse 41, “We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.” What is this good thief saying. He’s saying, the cross is just. The cross is going to become good news to this good thief. Let me repeat that, the cross is going to become good news. We know kind of where this goes right. So, he’s on the cross, he’s suffering. Is this not going to be turned into absolute good news for this thief?
Jacob: Yes.
Timothy: More than he imagines more he can ask or imagine, but it’s only by what does he get, does God bring him down from the cross? No, he has to stay on the cross. He’s not even asking.
Jacob: He has to die.
Timothy: He has to die, that’s why we have to pick up our cross, we have to be crucified with Jesus. And those that are humble, those that are not littered up with pride and rebellion, they say, I justly deserve the cross in my life I’m getting what my deeds deserve. There’s no abstract thinking here, these are my deeds, these are my specifics, this is who I am. But then when we look at Jesus, we go, what? “He’s under the same sentence but he’s done nothing wrong.” The cross for this good thief will produce being born again.
Jacob: Which is not taught in the churches today. Today it’s oh you’re a sinner. You’ve done bad deeds. But say this prayer, do this, whatever the church comes up with right? To then escape the cross. Because then you’re saved. Then you don’t have to endure the Cross in your life, it’ll be okay.
Timothy: That is correct. And where the real problem comes in is you got a lot of bad thieves or a lot of bad Christians hanging on a cross. They’ve got misery in their life or God is trying to do the work in their life to crucify them, right? You bring a rebuke to them, you bring a scripture to them, God, the Holy Spirit brings it to them. It’s in their face. They’re along with all the good scriptures and I’m putting that in quote that they read. There’re the bad scriptures they don’t like that they’re also reading and they’re trying to escape those and they’re pouring in insults when you bring those up. If I bring up John 12:25 that you have to hate your own life or definitely if I go to Luke 14:25, that you got to hate your father and mother, your brother and sister, your wife and children. Yes, even your life. Pick up your cross and follow the ground and die and carry your cross and follow him.
I met with all kinds of opposition and people will say, I’m saved. I don’t need to do any of those things you just ignored and then you begin to hurl insults at the church or the doctrine or me or whatever you can get at. Each person has their own particular technique. We kind of covered that. “The cross will produce for this good thief being born again.” I need to let that just really, really soak in. So, Jacob just repeat it. And if you have any comments expound on it.
Jacob: Luke 23:41, “For we are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.” So yeah, I mean I don’t know why, I think about there’s the parable of, Jesus gives the parable of the workers in the field and some right worked like all day and some only work like two hours. And that you could say like the thief on the cross is one at the end, but like so if you take that parable which was the workers had to work. You could say, okay, everyone’s going to die on the cross. Everyone’s going to you will die on that cross. It’s just a matter of how long or how painful or how much you have to carry it. But the end is the same or it’s the same thing. It’s “the cross” and you have to die and that’s the only way I just think of that parable.
Timothy: Excellent. Amen to that particular aspect of it and you bring up a really good point. Either way we’re going to die. We’re all under a curse and you either being crucified or attempting to be crucified. God’s trying to deal with you. Look at all the misery in the world. Look at all the shaking that’s going on. You feel like you’re being nailed down. There’s nowhere to escape or to go. So, we could go into that more and more. But everybody still trying to escape or trying to be blessed out of it. There’s no salvation that only those who admit they deserve it. Admit what’s going on. Allow God to work his will and surrender to the truth of Jesus Christ as he preaches that truth will be born again. In verse 42, we see the born-again moment for this good thief. Jacob, go ahead and read verse 42.
Jacob: “Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
Timothy: The simplicity of that is just beautiful. Sidetracked here for a moment because those who say well it’s just by faith alone or you just ask Jesus in your heart or you don’t have to do anything or he didn’t ever got water baptized. So clearly that doesn’t mean anything. Again, if you’re nailed on a cross, you’re in the Sahara Desert. You’re locked in solitary confinement in a prison cell somewhere. You’re on your deathbed and nobody can get you off the deathbed to go get baptized. Not a problem. But I can assure you and we all can tell what would happen immediately if Jesus did say, okay, that’s good. Now I’m going to let you live down here. I’m going to free you like I freed Lazarus and so you can walk around preaching the good news and testify to what I’m going to do. What would be one of the first things he would go do?
Jacob: He would have gotten baptized.
Timothy: Correct. So, let’s just press on with that. Then he said…
Jacob: Okay real quick.
Timothy: Okay.
Jacob: Only because this verse all the churches today what do they say. You’re going to do these steps whatever they are, right? People got different versions.
Timothy: Right.
Jacob: And then you can, the words are, you can be sure, you know you’re saved you’re going to heaven. And so, but this when he asked Jesus, correct me if I’m wrong. He doesn’t know. He’s asking. So, he’s saying Jesus remember me when I come into your kingdom but he doesn’t know. Yeah, at this very moment, right? Like the whole Christian life is it’s a struggle because we want to be with Jesus, but if we’re truthful and honest of course we look at our lives and we say like the thief. Well yeah, I deserve this cross. I deserve the punishment. Lord, please save me. But that that you don’t know. But all the churches out there are lying and they say, you can know for sure you are going to heaven if you do X, Y & Z.
Timothy: Well, what you bring up is we like to play God in the Garden of Eden we thought we became God’s. So, if we recite a prayer which is if we’re just reciting that kind of prayer and doing their thing and want to assume that we’re saved, we’re just playing God unless God tells you which brings us to the next verse unless God and they’ll say that God told them, so we don’t have time to kind of go through that process. But unless God and Jesus himself tells you that you’re saved. Are you going to be in paradise? Don’t believe it. Verse 43, “Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.””
Verse 42, he doesn’t ask for salvation just ask to be remembered. I’m not sure he knew what he was asking. I’m not sure any of us do when we first come to Jesus but just remember me is all he’s saying, when you come into your kingdom and Jesus goes from there to, “You’ll be with me personally in paradise.” That’s a huge jump. Because of the man’s selflessness in seeking Jesus Christ, his humility admitting that he needs to be saved. That brokenness is there and let us not forget who he rebuked he rebuked the bad thief he was actually proving he was a Christian long before he became a Christian. So, Jesus says, “I tell you the truth, today you’ll be with me in paradise.” Jacob let’s take a seal a moment and let this sink in.
Selah moment:
Timothy: Alright, Jacob let’s go to John chapter 6 verse 8 and we’re going to examine the miracle loaves where Jesus multiplied the loaves and fed a multitude. And we’re going to kind of break this down, and you slow me down when I pass up the specifics too fast.
Jacob: Okay.
Mid Point
Timothy: Jacob, read John chapter 6 is 8-10.
Jacob: “Another of his disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, spoke up, “Here is a boy with five small barley loaves and two small fish, but how far will that go among so many?” Jesus said, “Have the people sit down.” There was plenty of grass in that place and the men sat down, about 5,000 of them.”
Timothy: Let’s break this down just a little bit verse nine I love it but even the smallest amount of faith can go a long way. Here is what he says, this is true faith that emits the facts. I get so tired of hearing people. They’ll have faith in something. They won’t admit the facts of where they’re at or the situation or what’s going on. But look how clear and truthful Andrew is. He goes, “Here is a boy.” So, he doesn’t come admitting his strength he doesn’t say, oh, look we’ve got barley loaves and we got two fish and I’ve seen you do miracles and Jesus you’re just the man so make it happen. He comes with who he is. His heart is open. And though his faith is weak he’s still coming to Jesus, but it’s meekly and Jesus going to grow him through it.
Goodness, my discipleship life many times of that it’s a small faith and you come to God going this and this but you’re coming to God. And that’s the crucial point. “So, here’s a boy with five small barley loaves, and two small fish. But how far will that go among so many?” You got to love the faith. I can identify left and right with this kind of thing. But a mustard seed of faith. A smoldering wick Jesus won’t put out. You just come in and you admit, okay I’m weak. This is a boy. This is small. This is a tiny fish. How far will this goldfish go? What is it we’re going to do Lord? I come to you with it, but it’s not going to go very far. You have to love that kind of openness. I know if we’ve fellowship back and forth Jacob, one of the things that I’ve encouraged you to do, scripture says to always pour your heart out to God at all times.
Jacob: Yep.
Timothy: And doing that means you admit when you’re down or you admit when you’re up. There’s just an openness there that at all times you’re not playing a game with Jesus Christ. You’re not trying to come with flattery or trying to psych your faith up. Oh, I read this. I saw Jesus feed some people before. So, and we all got rebuked. Remember that? Remember that, Peter? Remember we all got rebuked because he followed the multitude and we didn’t have enough faith or he’s walking on water and we doubt and thought it was a ghost. So, you know what? I’m going to come to Jesus. I’m going to prove that I’m a Christian and I’m going to prove that I’m really a man of God. None of that pretense, none of that arrogance, none of that pride. What you see is what you get.
“Here’s a small boy with five small barley loaves and two small fish, but Lord how far will that go.” That’s pouring your heart out to God at all times no matter where you’re at that’s why James says, “If any of you is happy let him sing Psalms and praises to God.” You don’t go off on a tangent. You don’t go off on your pride. You don’t go off on self-centeredness and who you are and things like that. Verse 10, Jesus said, “Have the people sit down.” Certainly not a big hallelujah presentation. Jesus always calming the crowds down. This isn’t about getting people all excited. Getting them to follow you. There’re no lights going off or fireworks coming down. I don’t even know that the people sitting there going to know a miracle happen. What’s your thoughts on that Jacob? What do you think?
Jacob: Yeah, I know what you mean where, because food’s just going to show up in front of them. So only people that know for sure are the disciples that a miracle has happened. They’re going to be happy that they got fed.
Timothy: I think so and I mean word will spread. I don’t know that you can hide it.
Jacob: Correct.
Timothy: But when you’re first sitting down and doing these things it’s like, okay yeah, he’s going to feed us. I don’t know that everybody knew well I don’t have any food. I don’t know if the group had come together and kind of figure that out. Jesus said, “Have the people sit down, there was plenty of grass in that place.” And look at it’s just from people to who, Jacob?
Jacob: This is the men sat down.
Timothy: The men sat down. I’m not going to go too far with this at the moment because we’ll come back to all that offensive stuff later but God clearly is emphasizing men here, isn’t he? We go from people to men.
Jacob: Correct, yes.
Timothy: And he he’s only counting the men. He’s, as far as I know not counting the children and the women and the wives.
Jacob: Women and children, yeah.
Timothy: I could be wrong. Doesn’t really matter. There was plenty of grass in this place. A lot of people think this is an eyewitness example because well, there’s plenty of grass if somebody’s seeing that. Anyway, “And the men sat down about 5000 of them.” So, you got 5000 men and that’s who God is sticking in in this scripture to go, hey, these are the people that I put in charge. There’s a lot of reasons for that. Don’t worry, nobody’s going to be happy for those reasons except those that are humble, but the men sat down. Exploring a little bit on this as the miracle begins to happen don’t you think the men would begin to discuss among themselves or see what’s going on or as Andrew and the apostles begin to pass out the bread or maybe they had the boy do it and the fish and it just keeps multiplying. Don’t you think the men are going to kind of pick up on what’s going on there?
Jacob: Yeah, because if they first sat down in what we’ll call ignorance like well what’s going to happen like. And then as they see themselves food is brought to them and food is brought to everybody else then yeah, the conversation would have to start. Well, where’d this come from and what’s going on. And then, oh, well, Jesus keeps diving it out.
Timothy: And they would be very excited as Andrew and all of them would be hard to contain yourself. Oh, look at this basket. You make a comment. I don’t think you got, okay, this is routine miracle stuff. I really like the way you said that, when you said, they sat down in ignorance. I like that. Because they didn’t get up in ignorance. How many times with Jesus if we would just sit down when he tells us to sit down, we’d rise up a lot smarter than when we sat down?
Jacob: Oh yes, correct. But we don’t ever, yeah how many times do you emphasize whether to me in person or on the show to pour out your heart to God and then of course sit down and be quiet. Sit before the Lord and that’s before he can teach before he can do a miracle, before he can do whatever you have to sit down and nobody wants to sit down, they want to run around doing whatever they want to do.
Timothy: Amen exactly. Verse 11, I can’t add to that. “Jesus then took the loaves, gave thanks, and distributed to those who were seated as much as they wanted.” What do you make of that, Jacob? And I’ll let you a little bit think about that where I’m headed. But now we see really, it’s Jesus is passing the loaves and giving thanks. So, he’s walking around with the basket. In our Christian walk each of us will those that are true disciples of Jesus experience God multiplying, whether it’s spiritual food or whether it’s worldly food or situations or whatever. We’ll see Jesus giving thanks while we’re seated, we’re not all worked up in our prayer meetings and we’re not doing our bible studies. He’s just walking to us handing us a basket and in that basket is some and it’s some bread, and everybody took as much as they wanted. But what does it say in the part that I was kind of hinting at was, and it says, “He distributed to those who are,” what?
Jacob: Seated.
Timothy: Seated, so those that are still standing if there were any, I don’t know. But Jesus is certainly making the point is it’s only when you’re seated, you’re going to get this miracle. You’re going to see the loaf, go ahead.
Jacob: Were people standing or perhaps some people got up and left. Maybe it was taking too long and they’re like, man, this is this is weird. I I’m out of here and they got up and just like left and only or it was I don’t know.
Timothy: Well, we could certainly explore that. I doubt they left because they were probably out so far away and in other parts, he’ll say yeah, they’ve come a long way. So, you’re kind of in a corner. No, you bring up a really good point. Because a lot of people they start attending church and they start doing some things with Jesus and they start following Jesus Christ. How many times have we seen and then it gets a little bit uncomfortable and they don’t want to sit out. They don’t want to learn from Jesus. They don’t want to endure the cross. They don’t want to be just disciplined by the living God. And so, they want to turn and go back but to turn and go back is a long way back.
So, they’re kind of stuck. So, I’ve seen people just stick around and you can tell they’re sticking around. I mean, obviously, you hope they repent and you hope they get on with following Jesus Christ, but they’re they put themselves in a corner. They won’t put forth the effort to sit down and learn from Jesus Christ. They want me to tell them what to do or they want me to sit there, get some loaves and some fishes, and then take it to them and go, here you go, you need to eat. Don’t you appreciate what God did? And distribute it to those who were seated. So, I think there are some people standing around, absolutely. Not everybody’s obedient.
Jacob: Yeah. Kind of like almost maybe like a Martha and Mary. Like Jesus was sitting at the feet of Jesus and Martha is off busy doing things that look noble and what not, but that wasn’t what Jesus won.
Timothy: That’s certainly part of it but I don’t want to put these people that are standing there in a Martha territory.
Jacob: Oh okay.
Timothy: Martha still had problems. Welcome to the club, and God was dealing with that. But there it’s possible that there’s some Martha standing there. Some men who will not sit that learned to sit later. But not as we prove it. Not as we move into this story, it’s not this event that took place and we’ll look at that as we move forward. But they were seated and what? They ate as much as they wanted. And he did the same with the fish. So, it all depend on your hunger and thirst for righteousness how much you’re going to get. But you only get it from sitting. “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness.”
The disciples were the most blessed at the Lord’s supper. Then all the events come together and then all the blessings and who this is going to happen to and what’s going to happen. They’re sitting down before God. That’s why David will write in the Psalms. “I’ve weaned myself like a child from its mother’s breast”. This is not an easy thing to do. And I wish we had time to explore but we do not.
It’s very difficult just to learn in your heart to sit. That’s why Hebrews says, “Make sure nobody misses the grace of God by not entering the Sabbath rest of God.” It’s within the Sabbath rest of God. We always have to do. We always have to have a bigger ministry. You always think we got to go do something. We always think we have to be these powerful people or do this for Jesus. So, go pray or maybe just go have fun. But the point is we always have to do something. It’s those that are seated in their hunger and in their thirst waiting for Jesus to bring the basket to them. That are blessed.
Jacob: And it could take a while. If there was a crowd of 5,000 some people are going to be eating first. And some people are going to be, you know what I mean?
Timothy: Yes.
Jacob: And you probably, even if you’re seated you could kind of poke your head up and see well, he’s way over there and you got to sit there and wait. So, some people waited way longer.
Timothy: You bring up another good point. In fact, let’s suppose we had a church of five thousand. Just 5,000 men. And I said, okay, Jacob here’s a couple fish and whatever’s in the basket, right? Start feeding the 5,000 and when you’re done, I’ll start preaching. You’d be there. How long would that take?
Jacob: Yeah. Long time.
Timothy: Yeah, and then people are going to want to talk to you as you go by. It’s not like this is an assembly line thing. So, this is very slow movement on Jesus allowing everybody time to contemplate. So, the first person that gets the loave and then he comes back and the way I’m reading this is comes back with the fish a second time. There’s a lot of thinking going on or at least let me refrain he’s at. God is putting them in a position where there should be a lot of thinking going on. People really should be, if they’re going to listen to the Consider Podcast, you should listen to one and just go sit before the Lord, because there’s a lot to think about here.
Verse 12, “When they had all had enough to eat.”
Now we’re back to all. So, God didn’t, don’t worry God did not leave the women hungry and he didn’t leave the children hungry. He’s trying to point to some other fact here. Part of what I think is going on is he gives the bread and the fish to the men, meaning husbands and fathers and older brothers and things like that. And they’re distributing that food to the family or to the group they’re with or who they have authority over. “When they’d all had enough to eat, he said to his disciples, “Gather the pieces that are left over. Let nothing be wasted.”
The Holy Spirit is working so I don’t want this to sound too noble, but I hate wasting Jesus Christ now. And then not to some kind of weird thing like you can’t throw a pencil away, but let no energy be wasted. Let there be an economy of motion. Every second should count. Every action should be [INAUDIBLE WORD 41:01], there is even when we played and we Had fun in the church. Was it not organized, Jacob?
Jacob: Yes.
Timothy: And it wasn’t this strict organization. I know what if you watch TV or listen to the gossip, you think it’s this kind of legalistic thing. No, there was perimeters. It was like playing in a playground that’s fenced in and yeah, you can do that or no, you shouldn’t go up the slide or let’s do this together or let’s play tag back and forth. It’s organized in such a way that there’s a tremendous amount of freedom but the point here is not is wasted. No second is wasted. We were very busy. We worked hard. We played hard. We were [INAUDIBLE WORD 41:40] in what we were doing. Our minds were prepared for action. That’s why King County prosecutors and that’s why everybody found it so difficult to tear us down. They expected us to collapse well within several days, right Jacob?
Jacob: Correct.
Timothy: Oh yeah. That was the whole goal from the beginning. They were shocked and amazed that it took that long to deal with a to run us out of town.
Jacob: Correct, it’s going to be slam dunk.
Timothy: Slam dunk. Slam dunk. Because for one thing, they’re measuring themselves or they’re measuring us by their church, their Christianity which it would be a slam dunk. There’s no self-discipline there. There’s no prepared for action. There’s no faith. There’re no resisting evil men. They’re the bad thieves on the cross. They just want to be saved from the turmoil and so instead of coming and saying, hey, I want to share with you and the sufferings of Christ, they decided to heap the sufferings that are in Jesus Christ to their shame. So, the work still continues. John 6:13. Read the work that they do.
Jacob: “So, they gathered them and filled twelve baskets with the pieces of the five barley loaves left over by those who had eaten.”
Timothy: So, they gathered them and put it all together. Nothing would be wasted at all. And I find this kind of interesting and I don’t know that I have a full answer for. But in verse 13, Jesus sends them out together up all the pieces. But what we read in the scripture above is Jesus passed out all the pieces of bread. And don’t you and I feel like that as you minister to people or as you share the gospel, I’m only picking up what Jesus has planted. It’s not me that has done a ministry work or me that has gone out and preached or done. Or even if somebody responds to the preaching or to a book or to whatever, it’s not me. God is already working in their heart. I’m just being privileged to pick up the pieces.
There’s hard work in that. You still got to go to all these people and you still got to pick up the piece and you got to make sure, oh, you got anything else in there, you got anything else in that basket. Also telling and this will get to the point, I don’t think we’re going to get to it today. But as we move forward in this, what is he doing he’s not allowing anybody to put something in the bank. Nobody’s being…
Jacob: Oh, none of the people get to save. They don’t get to save any of the leftovers.
Timothy: Correct.
Jacob: Yeah.
Timothy: So, they gathered them and filled twelve baskets with the pieces of the five barley loaf left over by those who had eaten. So, God is trying to tell us this is a day-by-day hour by hour dependence on me I give and I take away. I bless and I also gather up. But what he does, the Holy Spirit that I had yesterday I can’t depend on that. The Holy Spirit I had in me working an hour ago. I can’t depend on that. Holy Spirit that I had at 2 seconds ago. I can’t depend on that. Because nothing’s wasted. He’s not just going to leave it to sit there. It’s always a movement always next and what does it also do? It makes me always dependent upon the living God.
It demonstrates a couple things. One that God will provide if you just leave your worldly activities. If you just endure the sufferings of the cross if you just get alone with God, he will fill you up but then you won’t be able to just run with that. Man, I praise God for that. When I was first baptized, I think 20 or right around in that level, right. If God would have said, okay Tim, here’s the power of the Holy Ghost, go talk about a disaster. Ignorant, foolish, baby Christian. He was working a lot of things but he kept picking up the pieces. He goes, I know going to let this be wasted and you’re not ready to carry it with you. So, you know what? It’s back in the basket until the time is needed again.
I think we’re about out of time for today, but we’re going to finish with verse fourteen and then we’ll pick that up next time. Jacob, why don’t you read John 6 verse 14?
Jacob: “After the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus did, they began to say, “Surely, this is the prophet who has come into the world.””
Timothy: Why did they say that? Good thief or bad thief? Jacob, take us out of here and we’ll look at the rest later on.
Outro: This has been the Consider Podcast at www.consider.info where yesterday’s folly is today’s madness. In the beginning, the unrepentant sinners words are folly. At the end, they are wicked madness. Ecclesiastes 10:13. Judgement begins with the house of God. Therefore, let everyone who loves the Lord with an undying love pick up their cross and walk the talk. As Peter the wrote. “Therefore, prepare your minds for action. Be self-controlled”. First Peter 1:13-14. The Considered Podcast, examining today’s events and Paulorrow’s realities. www.consider.info.
End
The Consider Podcast
Examining today’s wisdom, folly and madness with the whole gospel
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