Timothy: We’re going to continue to talk about the fact that there is nothing like big fat, zero, nothing good that lives in you. Welcome to the Consider Podcast.
Intro: Welcome to the Consider Podcast where we turn our minds to consider wisdom, madness and folly. Join the host Timothy and Jacob on a quest to have God enlighten the mind according to verse 25 of Ecclesiastes chapter 7. So, I turned my mind to understand. To investigate and to search out wisdom and the scheme of things and to understand the stupidity of wickedness and the madness of folly. Ecclesiastes 7:25. The Consider Podcast examining today’s events and Paulorrow’s realities at www.consider.info.
Timothy: Were just as guilty as any mass murderer you can think of throughout history. Just if you could imagine all the people that killed other people, whether they were generals or soldiers or just what we call depraved serial killers. We are all worse than they are. For one thing going to hell is like getting on a slide. It just depends on what position you’re at but everybody’s headed down that direction. In other words, like Jesus says, “If you look at a woman lustfully you’ve already committed adultery.” You just may not have actually committed the physical adultery yet, but the small part of the sin will end up being there.
We’ve all been angry at our neighbor or what we call today our significant other, or people that we know and we don’t repent of that anger. Well, that just continues to grow and Jesus says, “We commit murder.” So, it’s like getting on a slide we started a high position in life, we’re children. There’s a possibility Maybe doing some good, but that’s not what happens. We all begin to get on that slide to head to hell and then eventually it all winds up in the same place. So, you might look at the person in front of you and go well they’re lower down than me or they’re further and worse than I am but you’re right behind them headed in the same direction. That makes sense Jacob?
Jacob: Oh yeah, and they could zoom past you. You both even at a playground, they’ll have like slides right next to each other and kids playing. And so, maybe they’re on the deeper slides so they may be sliding faster and you’ll see them whizz by who can get there first. But it’s the same destination.
Timothy: You bring up a good point. We could be on some parallels with that that people seem to be in a hurry to see who can send the most, who could be the drunkest of the party or kind of just what the most greedy or whatever the big investor. That’s true. People cut in line. Remind me the other day we’re out walking around. Remember we saw that slide. In the United States course everybody’s so safety conscious.
Jacob: Oh yes.
Timothy: You can’t have fun.
Timothy: So, it was a slide. It still went downhill, but if you can envision there was a hill that it was on. So, if you fell off on the side.
Jacob: Nothing you weren’t going to get hurt.
Timothy: Yeah, there was no bruises.
Jacob: Ain’t gonna get break any bones.
Timothy: Yeah. No learning curve in life. No discipline. But anyway, that’s not the point. I’m just kind of marveling at when does this all stop, when the government stops being just crazy about everybody’s safety and let us kind of just, it’s the old constitutional thing to suit of happiness that disappeared a long time ago. Alright, so whereas guilty is the most guilty person that you can think of. You may not arrived at that position, but you’re vastly headed that direction. Let me encourage everybody here. Everything we’ve looked at in all the podcast up until this point and there’ll be a few more that we need to continue on is not the difficult part.
We haven’t actually gotten to how do you live the Christian life. Where do we get the power to do this? And what does it mean to actually day after day be like Jesus and all that he was. I would encourage people to really build a foundation go back and listen to some things before we get to that because this is just the offensive part. We’re not down to the actual difficult part. In fact, we’re going to look at some of the most offensive scriptures that people don’t like today, but again it’s an intellectual thing. We’re kind of looking at it, there’s kind of a knee jerk reaction. There’s a long way to go from there to the holiness of actually Holy Spirit being able to empower us and strengthen us to live the Christian life.
Jacob, why don’t you go ahead and read Romans chapter 7 verse 18, because I don’t want anybody to think I’m too crazy meaning that there is nothing good one thing. Name it, name one good thing you think you do, it’s not good it’s guilty. Give me the power of the Holy Spirit and some discussion and I’ll be able to prove that to anybody. I’m not saying you’ll like it; I’ll just be able to prove it. Jacob?
Jacob: Romans chapter 7 verse 18, “I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.”
Timothy: Most people don’t know this, do they, Jacob? I mean, it did the people going, I know nothing good lives in me in my sinful nature.
Jacob: They’ll read the scripture but again, they’ll just gloss over it or it’s the typical, I know I’ve said it before but the whole like, oh nothing good lives in me but then I accepted Jesus and then now he’s in my heart, so now I’m saved. And then you don’t have to worry. You read it once. Read it once and then you’re done.
Timothy: Good point. Again, this is as, “I know.” That’s not knowing. I mean that’s in an actual reading of it. It’s a bedtime story level. It’s an opinion. It’s a nice concept. But to know, when you look at yourself in the mirror to know when you go into the prayer closet, to know as you begin to function throughout the day that not one good thing lives in you. I’d have to say that knowing, you’re correct in what you’re saying. But knowing this is beyond, this isn’t to a classroom where okay recite this back. Here’s a box you check that you know nothing good lives in you, that’s not what this is about. This is, he knows this, he feels the pain of this struggle. It goes on to say, read verse 19.
Jacob: “For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do—not… I’m going to say it again. “For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do– this I keep on doing.”
Timothy: Okay, that’s knowing. That’s the knowing struggle. Again, verse 18, “for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.” It’s an impossible situation when I first became a disciple of Jesus, very early on the sermons would preach and they’d recite the scriptures. They were big on bible stuff and they go through all this and say, yeah, this is what we do, this is what we are and this what we believe. But they would never tell you how to do it. So, nobody had a sense of powerless. I don’t know what they were doing, but it’s like I was taking this seriously like okay Jesus Christ said this. God said this. I want to obey it. Well how do I do it? And so, I’d set out to do it and I wasn’t well refined and sound doctrine or anything or the message of the cross.
So, there was this huge frustration level and going to be well how do I go do this thing? How do I live this? That’s knowing. That’s knowing where you try and you realize oh, I’m not going to be able to do this. Something else has to happen. Something else has to give. “I know that nothing good lives in me.” Not a single thing. “That is in my sinful nature. So, it’s the new creation that we have. That’s all that counts. The problem is the old creation can pray.” The old creation go to church. The old creation can leave the church. The old creation can give good gifts to children. The old creation believes its own lives that it’s whole, noble, holy, and good. That’s part of the problem is breaking it down.
So, we have to allow ourselves to be offended by the message of the cross. We have to allow God come to us so that we know that we experience it that we might be dependent upon him and be willing to pick up our cross and follow Jesus Christ. Again, this is just the offensive part. I need to warn people you need to go back and listen to these things. Maybe get a copy of the book “Even Demons Believe.” You need to go back and get before God and dig down deep, because we’re going to get to series of podcasts that look at how Jesus lived this. And once that materializes, all your excuses vanish and that’s part of problem why people don’t want to look at it because you really don’t want the solution.
It reminds me we don’t have time to look at it, but Jesus goes to man that’s sick and he goes, “Do you want to be made well?” And the guy goes through a lot of excuses. A lot of people don’t really want to know. You have power because in order to do this you have to give up your own life. And that’s what we’re looking at right now.
Romans chapter 5 verse 6. We’re just kind of passing through as we go and look at Jesus Christ and why you need Jesus Christ. Romans 5:6. “You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.” Powerless is what I want us to highlight, understand, get deep in our heart. The sooner we can admit that we’re powerless, sooner we can get on to the resurrected life. Now, whether you want to go through the process of being crucified with Christ, that’s a different story. That’s what’s kind of in between but the first part is like I can’t live this and the constant rebukes that the apostles experience with Jesus was God attempting to what? Show them just how powerless they were and how nothing good there. You read through the gospels what do you see they’re always coming to wrong conclusion, aren’t they Jacob?
Timothy: Always. Their discussions are all over the place. They’re at the last supper, the last supper. After all that teaching and all those miracles and all those rebukes, and they’re arguing out loud with Jesus hearing them of who is the greatest in the kingdom. Now that’s powerless. You’d be like Jesus in our living room Jacob, and we begin to argue about no, no I’m better at the podcast than you and you go, no, I’m better and I can do this. That’s kind of an amazing how relaxed they were around Jesus to be able to do that and then of course it just shows how powerless we are. He’s got to be shaking his head going, man, what a bunch of children. “You see, it just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.” That’s why you need Jesus, but you got to admit you’re powerless and you have to admit that what? You’re ungodly. I want to remind everybody of first Peter chapter 4 verses 1 & 2. Because you may not have heard this before or honed in on it. Jacob, why don’t you read first Peter chapter 4 verses 1 & 2.
Jacob: “Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin. As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God.”
Timothy: “Unless you’re suffering in your body by suffering with Jesus Christ.” Being crucified with Jesus Christ you’re not done with sin you’re still a slave to it. We’ve covered this another podcast. Go arm yourself for this attitude, because you’re going to need it as we move into other areas. Now I don’t know what’s kind of set out there today if there’s even a concern about whether we’re valuable or not. I think most people most churches just assume we’re a value. Uh it’s not a debate. It’s nothing they discussed that they’re going to think this is talking some weird foreign language.
In Matthew chapter 12 verse 11 & 12. Jesus said to them, “If anyone of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out?” Now verse twelve says and this was honed in 40 years ago for sure. “How much more valuable is a man than a sheep!” There it is. “Therefore, it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” So, they hone in on this and say you’re a value. When God looks at you, he doesn’t see Genesis pain. He doesn’t see regret because you’re valuable. So, what’s going on here? If we go with that kind of logic that we’re valuable for who we are or value on any level then you got to do away with Romans, it says, we become worthless, right?
Timothy: You can’t have something in your house. You go, that’s worthless but it’s a value. In abstract way would have memories, but we’re talking about intrinsic value there. It’s not there. So, what’s going on here? What does he mean? Why are we more valuable than a sheep? Is really the question. We are of value not because of who we are. God has already declared we are worthless. We fill him with pain. He regrets making us. So, we’re not of value in that sense. That’s why he prepared hell. You don’t put valuable things in hell. If we were of this kind of value that Jesus is talking about or that how we humanly interpret what Jesus is saying here. Then nobody’s going to hell. Because we’re all of some value. He only throws worthless things into hell. So, why are we of value then?
Let’s go to Leviticus chapter 22 verse 32. And the short answer of this is we’re of value not because of who we are but who God is. We’re valuable only because he made us because he set forth into motion that we would be of greater concern and attention than a sheep. So, the value is not in the intrinsic value of who we are. We’re just dust. And we’re sinful dust and we’re rebellious dust. So, it is God and who he is that makes us holy or of value so there’s no value to Timothy Williams. He is in his sinful nature absolutely 100, 200%, 300% totally corrupt powerless, unable to live the Christian life. My value is not in me. My value is that God has decided that he’s going to give me attention. Let’s look at Leviticus chapter 22 verse 32 and Jacob, why don’t you go ahead and read that.
Jacob: “Do not profane my holy name. I must be acknowledged as holy by the Israelites. I am the Lord, who makes you holy.”
Timothy: We profane the holy name of God. When we teach that we should have good self-esteem. When we proclaim that we’re of somehow this value and that’s why God gives us attention, we’re profaning his holy name. There’s only one person who’s holy. There’s only one person that is good. It is the Lord. I must be acknowledged as holy by the Israelites because it’s a central truth. It is the truth of truth. So, it is the Lord. In fact, God goes on to say I am the Lord who makes you holy. So, it’s when God puts Jesus Christ. Literally an image of Jesus Christ in me. That’s where the value is but who’s the value? Me or Jesus Christ, Jacob?
Jacob: Jesus Christ.
Timothy: Jesus Christ. There’s no value to Timothy Williams. If there’s such a thing as anti-value that’s what I am because he regrets because of sin we’ve come and covered that. So, it’s the Lord who makes us holy. We are valued because he is a value and if he puts himself in me or gives me attention, then it’s valuable. Let’s go to Deuteronomy chapter 9 verse 5.
Jacob: The other thing I think, well you can correct me if I’m wrong. But he’s comparing us to a sheep and because then you could say, oh well, Jesus wishes that all would repent and like he does. Because he’s well aware you have a soul. Like your soul’s going somewhere, so like he gives everybody a chance. Do you want to repent, do you want to follow me? He knows we have souls that are going to go to hell. So, do you want to repent? But versus a sheep right, doesn’t have a soul. Soul wasn’t made in the image of God. so, I just even if you, and you would talk about a person or sheep. Well, of course even if you ask me today what’s more important is your neighbor more important than like a sheep or a dog. And like, oh well, of course somebody you should care more about your neighbor than even the neighbor’s dog. So, you know what I mean?
Timothy: Yeah, here’s a great example, and you correct me if I’m wrong too. You got a rock and you got a diamond. The diamonds flawed and it’s of no value in the sense of being able to do a ring or anything with it. Well, which is a more value? The rock or the diamond that you eventually just cast aside anyway.
Jacob: The diamond. You’re going to be more, people are going to go out there and mine to find the diamonds and cast all these other rocks.
Timothy: That’s right, but that doesn’t mean the diamond in itself is going to be some keepsake or you’re going to polish it.
Jacob: Correct. You got to do all the things that they do to diamonds.
Jacob: Before it’s a value. So, God’s going to have to come along and clean you up and sand you down whatever they do to polish diamonds. There’s still a lot of work before the diamonds going to sparkle.
Timothy: It’s amazing the pride of men anyway. So, let’s just say we were of value like the false Christian church likes to put out, right?
Timothy: But you compare to the whole nature of the universe and the quality of what God makes. That’s still a valuable way down on the list.
Timothy: So again, it’s the God put a soul and a spirit and we’re made exactly what you said. That’s what makes us a value to God but it’s not because we’re holy or righteous and that’s why he made hell. Let’s look at Deuteronomy chapter 9 verse 5. And we’ve already seen that the Old Testament, all scriptures useful, but we’re going to use all scripture. Jacob, go and read verse 5 there.
Jacob: “It is not be because of your righteousness or your integrity that you’re going in to take possession of their land; but on account of the wickedness of these nations, the Lord your God will drive them out before you, to accomplish what he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”
Timothy: Everything has to do there about God, doesn’t it?
Timothy: It has to do with, I swore to Abraham and Isaac and to Jacob and it’s not because you’re good or you’re righteous or you have some intrinsic integrity or any integrity that you’re allowed to go and take the land. It’s because they’re just so bad and they’re just so wicked and I make you holy so you get to go in there. It’s that kind of thing. I guess it’s like a prison and you’ve got different tears of people that are in prison and incarcerated but ultimately when we look at it we go you’re all criminals. It’s on that kind of level. So, let’s go ahead and read verse 6 there Jacob.
Jacob: “Understand, then, that it is not of your righteousness that the Lord your God is giving you this good land to possess, for you are a stiff-necked people.”
Timothy: We’re back again to understand I know that nothing good lives in me. God will sometimes well many times let us go ahead and attempt to live scripture and he wants us to get frustrated as quick as possible to really surrender. Now there’s no you’re not going to be able to out maneuver God. go, okay I give up on. We’ve really got to be convinced of this. The disciples had to learn that the hard way. Alright, well let’s just zero in on this and let’s just get rid of all this pretense to value, self-esteem, who we think we are, what gifts we think we have, and let’s just listen to the words of Jesus.
Let’s go to Mark chapter 10 verse 18. Person comes to Jesus, calls Jesus good. Calls Jesus good and this is what Jesus says. “Why do you call me good?” Like what are you doing? We’re so bad. We even use the word good wrong with the son of God. “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No, one is good.” No, one is good. This is Jesus saying that. “Except God alone.” Now this passage here is actually going to be crucial when we get down to how to live the Christian life. So, I would pray and ask God to enlighten you, to teach you this, to understand this really well by the power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus answered, “No one is good–except God own.” So, we have to get any goodness in our life from the Lord. And that means we have to be made in the image of Jesus Christ. And what we’re looking at today is counting the cost. Like if you say, okay yeah, I want the image of Jesus.
Well, there’s a cost that has to be associated with that, because there’s not going to be this smiling jack Jesus out here that you just kind of get or check a box and move on. We’re talking some serious stuff that has to happen that we have to sit down and contemplate. Jacob let’s go to chapter 6 verse 15 in the book of Galatians. Go ahead and read that.
Jacob: Galatians 6:15, “Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.”
Timothy: Now the circumcision issue, don’t get all confused or befuddled by that. He just means anything outward, whether you’re circumcised, uncircumcised Jewish or not Jewish. Because none of that means anything, it’s like zero. What counts is a new creation. We’re going to be looking again in the future podcast of how to get the new creation. Today, we’re going to be examining what you need to sit down and think about before you say, oh yeah, I want the new creation. It’s a lot more serious than that. That’s why I encourage everybody to prepare now because we’re going to be getting to the really difficult parts here in the future. Pick up a copy of “Even the Demons Believe”.
I’m not trying to sell a book. You can get I think free copies online. There’ll be the text. We’ve got an audio book eventually coming out that anybody can just listen to. It’s important that you Begin to sit down and contemplate before the Lord and get ready for what we’re going to look at here probably in a month or so. Jacob, why don’t you go and play that information?
Video: JF who lives in Brazil set up the book “Even the Demons Believe”. I would like to tell you that I’m doing chapter 7 right now. It’s the second time I’ve read the book, “Even the Demons Believe” and I think it’s an impacting book. Literally impacting. Let us say the first time you read it, you get shocked, outraged, and maybe sort of mad at the author. However, a second reading makes you go deep into your own spiritual life and church experiences. I presume it has gotten people exactly where Pastor Williams wanted them to be. Cornered and faced by their own attitude towards the almighty.
If you are interested in the full and complete gospel message before becoming a disciple of Jesus. Then the book, “Even the Demons Believe” might prove helpful. As the angel told the apostle Peter in Acts 5:20. “Go stand in the temple courts,” he said, “and tell the people the full message of this new life.’ The book “Even the Demons Believe will also guide those claiming the name Christian to test themselves. As the apostle Paul wrote in second Corinthians 13:5. Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you? Unless of course you fail the test? The Consider Podcast, today’s events, Paulorrow’s realities. www.consider.info.
Timothy: What we’re going to do now is to begin to look at a series of statements that Jesus makes about what is required for anyone to get the new creation there’s a lot of controversy that surrounds these passages, very few living it out. Like I’ve said before if you’re going to complain that I’m not seeing this clearly or I don’t have the right context or whatever you need to be fully prepared to demonstrate to me how you actually live it. What we’re going to do is play the series of scriptures we’re going to listen or that we’re going to discuss and let’s just listen to them and let us meditate on them as we hear them now. Jacob, go ahead and play that audio file.
Video: The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. Large crowds were traveling with Jesus and turning to them he said: “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life–he cannot be my disciple. And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple. “Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Will he not first sit down and estimate the cost to see if he has enough money to complete it? For if he lays the foundation and is not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule him saying, ‘This fellow began to build and was not able to finish.’ “Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Will he not first sit and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand? If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still a long way off and will ask for terms of peace. In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple. “Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is fit me for the soil nor for the manure pile; it is thrown out. “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.” The Consider Podcast, Ecclesiastes 1:17. Examining today’s wisdom, folly, and madness. www.consider.info.
Timothy: Once you get a hold of this and we’re going to go back and look at these scriptures in just a moment. Jesus says, “Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again.” This is a onetime deal. This is why it’s so important that you sit down we count the cost you understand what you’re getting into because once you begin this process or allow God to work this in your life. If you lose that saltiness, if you lose this message, if you lose this gospel message; once you have it, you’re not fit for anything. You’re just simply thrown out. It’s not even fit for the manure pile. That’s how worthless it becomes. We really need to do what Jesus said he has ears to hear, let him hear.
You need to get ears that actually hear what Jesus Christ is saying here, that for most churches this doesn’t apply and I’ll tell you why because they don’t have this message. So, they never had the saltiness to lose, but if you lay hold of this you sit down and count the cost and you say in any form to God, I want this and then you let go of it your church becomes ashamed of it, you back from preaching it, you don’t stand up and say it’s the truth. You don’t find it to be a thing of joy and you lose that saltiness, then you’re not fit for anything. It’s not like you can walk away from this later on and go, well, I didn’t quite live it or I didn’t agree with it or I thought I went too far. Whatever the excuses are. Once you lose the saltiness of what we’re going to look at here, then you become worthless. I mean worthless upon worthless upon worthless and not even fit for the manure pile. You’re just kind of thrown out. Jacob, you have anything you want to add to that?
Timothy: Because we’ve seen a of people get a hold of this and they even find the joy in it and they begin to live it and then they turn their back on it. Woe to them. Well, let’s go back up to John 12:25. “The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.” In order to be saved, you have to hate your life in this world. Now this doesn’t mean the first reaction I usually get from people on this is yeah, I don’t like my life. Life’s got misery or it’s not complete or I’ve got troubles or turmoils. That’s not what he means here. These people are watching Jesus Christ live his life and they’re realizing Jesus hates his own goals.
Jesus hates his own opinion. Jesus hates when he gets up and where he goes and what he does. Jesus hates what he wants to say. Jesus hates his vengeance if he had any. Jesus hates his love that he would love anybody with. Jesus hates his self-esteem. We go on and on about that. The main point is just to realize what he’s saying here that if you want the salvation of Jesus Christ and your church is not fully immersed in this, preaching this, demonstrating this, showing this how it’s lived. They don’t have a gospel message. At best they may have a partial and that’s you’re just in danger of losing that if you don’t move forward.
And that brings us to Luke chapter 14 where he says, “Large crowds were traveling with Jesus.” There’s a lot of travelers and it’s a large crowd. Most churches they really should put a sign up there instead of saying, we this many members, they should say, our large crowd is this member. Well, let’s at least be truthful what’s going on. So, you got these large crowds. They’re traveling with Jesus. They’re hanging around miracles. They’re appreciating his teaching. They like what he’s saying. They certainly like what he’s doing, right? Wouldn’t you attract a lot of people who provided food and miracles and hope to overthrow the Roman Empire or whatever you’ve got in mind going on. They’re going to travel with Jesus and say this is pretty good stuff. It’s better than being home. Certainly not boring, right Jacob?
Timothy: Alright, so he’s, you can get the picture. He just stops and turning to them. Okay, hang on. This whole crowd’s traveling on and all of a sudden you just kind of stop. It’s like everybody’s bumping into the person in front of them because Jesus like turning around and go whoa, whoa, hang on. This is what it’s going to mean if you’re going to follow me and he begins to lay that out and we’re going to talk just a little bit about it. It says, “If anyone comes to me,” anyone. Anyway, denomination, whatever, whoever you are, “if anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and his children, hate his brothers and sisters–yes, even his own life–he cannot be my disciple.”
I’m going to do something here that Jesus didn’t do. Jesus didn’t explain this. He just turned around to the crowd and just flat out said this and then he didn’t even stop with it. This would be a game changer. Wouldn’t it Jacob? You were there and you’re following Jesus like right up front there and then all of a sudden, he just stops. You kind of bump it to him. He turns and he goes, yeah hey, by the way you have to hate your father and your mother, your wife and your children, your brothers and sisters, and yes, your own life. Otherwise, you can’t be a part of me. You can’t be a disciple. You’ll notice Jesus is not making believers here. He’s telling people what it takes to be a disciple of Jesus.
So, this is a total game changer and this would be enough. Now let’s pull it together with what we’ve looked at in the last podcast and this one today. If there’s nothing good that lives in me, right? Are we all agreed on that, right Jacob? Everybody in this room anyway, right?
Timothy: We all agreed that there’s nothing good. So, the love I would have for my wife would be impure. Let’s kind of be honest. Is there not a lust factor in why people get married?
Jacob: Oh yeah.
Timothy: Alright. So, it’s impure to begin with. And then marriages stay together because why? They mutually get something from each other. There isn’t the selfless love that says no matter what happens I gave my oath. I gave a vow. I’m sticking with this, right? So, it’s what you get out of it’s tainted. It’s impure. Our best of whatever we call love. And I’m putting this in our human terms is so tainted. It’s worthless. It can’t be used by God to love our wife or children. So, it becomes natural. Or alright, let’s take hating children because that’s a tough one for most people. Our love for our children is based on selfish motives. It’s based on the impurity of sin.
The way we kind of see this the most is you’ll have somebody that was a murderer or a son and he’s going to go to the electric chair or whatever and the mother will say I’ll stand by you. I love you no matter what. Why do you think Satan emphasizes in TV and media and in empty churches, everything else that you’re supposed to love your family no matter what. Because if we’re always attached, you certainly can’t hate them, can you? You can’t see them clearly.
Timothy: Alright, but what happens here is because we know and the people can get past the red flag. They go, but Jesus is love, God is love. Okay, I know that it’s how you get to that love of God and how you get to that love of Jesus Christ to love other people. So, what happens is I hate my old nature that would seek to love my wife, because it’s unclean, it’s impure and it’s tainted with sin. It’s also impatient and grumbles and a few other minor things that I were was or were in the past. So, I hated that things. I hated that love. I hated those reasons and that makes room for God’s love to fill me up and then I have God’s love in me loving my wife. I have God’s pure holy love in me loving my children. Same thing with brothers and sisters and father and mother.
Certainly, it works. Okay, let me stop right there before I go too much further. We’re not going to be able to just hammer this all out. I actually wrote a book on this and it’s not in print right now. You might find yourself an old copy, but I’ll prepare you. That one is not an easy read by any means. Jacob, anything you want to add to this or tell me to go out more in some other way?
Timothy: We certainly see that hating father and mother that no matter what, you’re going to follow Jesus Christ. You’re going to be a disciple. You have to remember that Jesus’ mother came to take charge of Jesus because she thought he was out of his mind and so he turns her and go, who’s my mother? He denounces her. We’re talking about a pure love that that loves our father, mother for what’s best for them. It’s called selfless love. There’s no tie because I’m this part of this family or my DNA is connected over here. My love for them is just based on the pure love of God going out to my father or mother. Same thing, he hates his brothers and sisters. Now, I want to add a little sub point to brothers and sisters. Because Jacob from the littlest time, can you remember me teaching to hate me?
Timothy: Okay. You hesitated there. What were you thinking?
Jacob: Well, you said from the littlest time. So, I think I moved in when I was kind of more of a teenager, but yeah.
Timothy: Okay, alright sure. Well, not a problem. My point here is, well okay let me really bring it in so that we’re kind of totally fully on the one subject. Do I tell you now to hate?
Timothy: Alright. One of the reasons I do that is so that Jacob will never show me favoritism. That if Jacob needs to rebuke me or to correct me or to protect me or to keep my pride from getting out of hand or anything that else, he might see that God works. He has to have a hatred that pushes aside his favoritism toward me. That’s why when people accuse me of running a cold it’s just completely absurd. They’re just not doing what I tell them to do because I teach them to hate me. To see me clearly as I am, as God shows them that I am to always be fully committed only to the living God. And so, there’s not this favoritism or this tying in. This is what keeps the church clean. And this is what keeps us pure. It’s one of those things. You must hate his brother and sisters– yes, even his own life.
Well, in order to do this, you first have to begin with your own life. You hate your pride. You hate your humility. You hate where you want to go. You hate what you want to do. Your life. You hate your favorite color. You hate everything about who you are because as we’ve already seen, that’s worthless. It grieves God and you say, okay God, now you really do have room. You really do have permission. I am surrendered. I want you to work the new life that is in the image of Jesus Christ so that whatever favorite color you want me to have, I’ll have. Whatever food you want me to like or not like, I’ll like those. You work the new creation because that’s all that count.
How I’m supposed to love other people, how I’m supposed to love my wife and children, how I’m supposed to love my brothers and sisters and my father and mother? How I’m supposed to love as I go about my daily life, that is the image of Jesus Christ working. But the only way that can happen is you literally have to hate who you are, what you own and all the things that are associated with this world. That’s why first John says, “Love nothing in the world.” For example, if you’re going to have a church that has all things in common, the first thing that has to happen is you have to hate your things and you have to hate your money, right?
Timothy: So, God can’t work that kind of love in churches because nobody’s hating their money. Nobody’s hating the things they own. Nobody’s, that doesn’t mean the church owns everything even in Acts it says, “Everybody own their own property.” It is as each person hates world and hates the things of this world that you can then pour out your life of love to other people. So, my car isn’t my car, my house isn’t my house, my clothes aren’t my clothes. They literally do belong Jesus Christ and anything that I consider my favorite thing, I begin a process of hating against that so that God can use it or he tells me to keep it or give it away or whatever it might be.
Alright, so if I kind of covered enough of the hatred stuff, I realized these are sermons in and themselves. You could take each, but Jacob anything else I need to hone in on here or that I’m just kind of missing?
Timothy: Alright, so I’m going to put this in our very sinful human terms. If this wasn’t bad enough, right? You got to do all this hatred thing and God even figure out what it means. Well, that’s not even the crucial part.
Jacob: That’s the start.
Timothy: That’s the start. That’s really sitting down and going that’s an emotion. You have to hate these things this is soul and then the and, in the mind, right? This is all internal. What does he go on to say? I’ll let you read it, Jacob.
Jacob: “And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.”
Timothy: Two big elements there. Anyone and you’ll notice anyone, anyone, anyone, unless you’re. Man, that’s why it’s so easy to see who’s a Christian, who’s not anyone. If they’re not doing this, if it’s not even central in discussion, if it’s not in their prayers, if it’s not, you together for church. Everybody holds hands and really, you’ve heard people pray. Lord, help me to hate my wife and children. We don’t even think the words are good news. We shutter at this. If this is good news, then why isn’t being shouted everywhere? Why isn’t the truth of this, how this comes out? Can you imagine that everybody just love their family with a pure love that comes from God? What an example that would be, but it starts with a complete rejection, a hatred, an activity, a zeal.
When you hate something, you really, it’s not you don’t slap people in the face. It’s not a worldly kind of hate. If it were, be easy to do. This is a hatred that’s deep in the soul where you’re getting rid of things you covet, that you hold onto, the things that give you pleasure. All the selfishness there. Even your own life. He goes on to say, okay, once you get the hatred concept down and remember you got to suffer in your body with sin to be done with sin. Then he goes on to say, “And anyone who does not carry his cross.” Okay, that’s even tough. So, we got the hatred. We got carrying a cross. Alright, I’ll take a breath here. Jacob, when’s the last time you hear people talking about this is my cross to carry or I was in the prayer closet and hating my own life and man, God gave me this cross to carry and so I’m carrying this cross. What do you think? Jacob, I’m on the right course, not on the right course. Pray for me more. What’s going on here? I’m like scared. What’s all this about? Ever heard it?
Timothy: No. Because it’s not being presented. It’s certainly not being lived and it’s hardly being even talked about. It’s kind of glossed over. “And anyone who does not carry his cross.” Now here’s the hard part. Here’s the hard part. “And follow me.” Follow me. That’s the hard part and I’m not going to be able to get in that today. That’s why I’m warning over and over again in this. This is just concept. This is just preaching. This is just kind of hearing it. It’s like thinking about it. Following Jesus Christ. When we get to that part, you’re going to be I think completely surprised at this is what it means to be a Christian and this is how I live the Christian life. Well, you better get all this straight because you’re never going to get there because that’s going to be tough because that’s where the rubber meets the road. When you Get all of these things in place and then you start to follow Jesus Christ. Guess what? That’s when the rubber meets the road. Alright. Anything else Jacob? I know I’m kind of hammering this but I do not want to gloss over and so this is like serious business because the rest of this now we’re going to talk about contemplation.
Timothy: Alright. Jesus gets very practical now. He’s laid out these things. They’re very powerful things he’s laid out. Hatred is not a minor emotion. It’s not touches of emotion. This is serious difference. This is going to cause problems all the way down the line. Caring a cross, following Jesus Christ. We know where that’s headed. What does Jesus say? Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. I know our government will supply money to anybody that wants to do anything but let’s just pretend we’re in the old days when people actually had to pay their way. Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Will he not first sit down and estimate the cost? To see if he has enough money to complete it? Again, do you see this on TV telethons? Do you see go by church websites like, yeah, don’t come here unless you’re willing to sit down because this is going to cost you anywhere, Jacob?
Timothy: Okay. I know you can whine if you want if you think I’m saying I’m the only one. I’m not. I’m just saying where. Of any degree depth and I don’t even know if it’s mentioned. Suppose one of you wants to build the tower. He just practical. If you’re going to do this thing you should plan it out. Will he not first sit down and estimate the cost to see if he has enough money to complete it. So, there should be anybody thinking about becoming a disciple of Jesus Christ, should be have sat down for a period of time and go, okay, what is this going to mean? How will this come out? And all your questions won’t be answered. That’s not the point. But you better sit down and at least start thinking about it. It’s like if I were going to build a tower, you sit down, you estimate the cost, you look at it, but then guess what? Does everything go according to plan in terms of construction, Jacob?
Timothy: And we always know things cost more than we anticipate, correct?
Timothy: Alright, so but you at least got to have to sit down and go, can I afford this? Will I do this? Will I complete this? “For if he lays the foundation and is not able to finish, everyone who sees it will ridicule him. Saying, ‘This fellow begin to build but he was not able to finish.’” You will become a laughing stock. The world kind of already does that. They’ll see people start to be Christians then what? They stumble and fall and then people just laugh at him and they think Jesus Christ is in no value because they started, they didn’t really think about what they’re getting into.
Again, if you’re believing some rumor that I ran calls, that’s just nuts. You really are going off on a limb that does not exist. You might as well take what they call a what a long walk on a very short period, because it’s just simply not true. People had to sit down. They had to think and they did before they came in. This is not a joke. And I encourage people to like leave. Like get. Because this is serious business Jesus Christ has. He’s saying, if we lose this gospel message, we’re not even fit for the manure pile. And so now I want to say this in a positive way. This is great stuff. This is like good news. I’m dealing with the whiners over here and those that say I’ve got this out of contest. This is good stuff. Okay, let’s just imagine for a second for real that I’m worthless. Would I not be a little bit on the excited side to get rid of it?
Timothy: Okay. This is good news. Let me tell. I am thrilled to hate my family. I am thrilled to hate my own life. I’m not telling you I didn’t find it difficult at times and will find it difficult and there is suffering involved, but this is good news. I get to get rid of everything that is worthless in my life. How good is that? How good is that? And on top of that, I get eternal life. That’s why Jesus says, it’s like someone who finds a traitor hidden in the field. “In his joy, he goes and sells everything.” This is supposed to be good news. Part of the reason people don’t come to Jesus Christ is because if I preach on this or I say, hey, go find an old copy of hating for Jesus or the essential piece and read it and pass it around and if you act excited about it, they’re going to run you out.
So, the world doesn’t see a joy about this. They see us ignoring it. I think a lot of non-Christians see the church as joke because they know Jesus is more serious, then they’re acting like Jesus serious. Am I wrong on that one too?
Timothy: Alright, well we’re on a roll today let’s keep going. Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Will he not first sit down? Again, sit down first, like you going to follow me, you don’t come to me and just say, I want to be a disciple. Don’t hurry on up to the altar and go, well, here I am. Will he not first sit down? Jesus never said come on down. He had mass meetings in what stadiums and bringing thousands of people. He didn’t have the tent revivals, all this hype and hoopla that went goes on. He didn’t have calling to this prayer thing or get this gimmick over here. Listen to this tape here, this sermon over here. He just didn’t do anything. He didn’t say come on down. He said, sit down. Sit down and estimate the cost. Get rid of all those.
Look it’s easy enough to come in on a sermon. I can’t do it, but some people come in on sermons get people like say, great sermon pastor, I feel so much better. No, no, no. Jesus said, sit down. Now, I have to kind of don’t you think most people following him Jesus turns and says this he’s not really explaining? Don’t you think they’re kind of sitting down? If you know what I’m saying?
Jacob: You mean already?
Timothy: Yeah, I mean we don’t know this for sure in scripture, but I’m just supposing we’re walking along with Jesus’. Things are going really well. We’re all excited about. It he turns to us and he says all these things. Your knees just kind of start wilting, right?
Jacob: Well, I think there’s, I mean he’s slowing everybody down. So even if there’s people like rushing to the altar. They’re following Jesus. They dropped everything else that they were doing. And then he’s like whoa, whoa, whoa. He’s like pumping the breaks.
Timothy: And I think too like when Peter and those people he first came to them. What did he say? “Go away from me. I’m a sinful man.” There is this if a holy Jesus is presented. If a holy only God is good is really laid out. People are going to sit down or it’s going to be easy enough to go, hey, sit down, and they’re all going to go, yeah, yes that’s a good thing to do. or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Will he not first sit down and consider whether he is able with 10,000 men? So, he got some strength big whoop. 10,000 men to oppose the one coming against him with 20,000. If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still a long way off and will ask for terms of peace.
Note the words “a long way off.” Don’t put this off. You’ve already put it off too long. If you’re getting your gospel message from this podcast, you’ve already put it off way too long because you could have gone and read this yourself. “By a long way off and ask, okay God, “What are your terms of peace?” What are your terms of peace, Jesus? Everybody wants to talk about the peace of Jesus and having the peace of Jesus. There was a Twitter that came through that said, if you believe Jesus can move that mountain in front of you, quick follow. Follow me on Twitter. It’s like what kind of nonsense is that.
Long way off, you ask Jesus, okay Jesus, “What are your terms of peace.” Not what I can give for you. What does it mean for you to be able to put the peace of Christ in my life? And here’s what he says, “In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything.” “And if he does not give up everything, he has cannot be my disciple.” You can’t even become a disciple that’s being taught or falling under the discipline of Jesus Christ, unless you give up everything. That’s the beginning point. That’s not the end goal. That’s not like, okay well, I’ll begin to follow Jesus in 10 years, I’ll give up everything. No, no. If you want to learn, if you want to be taught, if you want to be a part of the church, if you want to be a part of quote unquote a ministry, if you want to be part of a holy calling people, you have to give up everything.
Now before anybody whines, have I done that? Yes, I’ve done that I’ve done that many times many cycles over I’ve given up everything right Jacob.
Timothy: Is that not a reality?
Jacob: It’s reality.
Timothy: It’s a reality. And I continue to do so and I’m going to rephrase this. It is my joy to do so. This world is not my home. The hymn says, “I’m just passing through.” It is my pleasure, my freedom. There is so much freedom and joy and hating and despising money. Oops, we’re not going today, but that’s hatreds in there too. In the same way he does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple. The reason our churches cannot be taught how to love one another. I mean really love one another by the power of the Holy Spirit, because they haven’t given up everything.
The first church, the first sign after being baptized and coming together the church was no one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. Why? Because they learned to hate and money. They learned to hate their own life. It wasn’t theirs. It was Jesus Christ. They had given it up. This wasn’t abstract. This was the church of love. This is what it means to love one another. “Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is fit neither for the soil nor for the manure pile; it is thrown out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”
We’re going to end today, Jacob. I’m going to have you play the song My Soul Does Bleed. And I’ll just share with you that the Lord gave me the words to this song. I’m not a musician. I certainly didn’t sing it as you’ll hear in a moment. But the Lord did give me the words. Because this is a joy. This is the hymn; this is the walk. But getting there means your soul’s going to bleed. When Jesus went into the garden, his soul was bleeding. Everything about giving up and counting the cost is wrapped up in that. So, let’s play this song and then we’ll head on out Jacob.
Outro: This has been the Consider Podcast at www.consider.info where yesterday’s folly is today’s madness. In the beginning, the unrepentant sinners words are folly. At the end, they are wicked madness. Ecclesiastes 10:13. Judgement begins with the house of God. Therefore, let everyone who loves the Lord with an undying love pick up their cross and walk the talk. As Peter the wrote. “Therefore, prepare your minds for action. Be self-controlled”. First Peter 1:13-14. The Considered Podcast, examining today’s events and Paulorrow’s realities. www.consider.info.
The Consider Podcast
Examining today’s wisdom, folly and madness with the whole gospel