#69, Jury Manipulation Part 2

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69, Jury Manipulation Part 2


69, Jury Manipulation, Part 2

Disclaimer: The Justice and Legal Segment on the Consider Podcast is only concerned with calling all individuals to repentance. No matter which side of the bar one is on. The demand is for repentance in accordance with Amos 5:24. Let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream. Nothing discussed should be considered legal advice. Want legal advice, pay a lawyer. Want justice? Pray to the Holy God. As the living God recorded in Deuteronomy 16:20, all must follow justice and justice alone. The listener assumes all responsibility for their actions or refusal to act accordance with justice and justice alone. Because the legal system hides their corrupt deeds and darkness any discussion is fraud with inadequate information. The listener should keep in mind that the news media only communicates what sells. Finally, make note that the vast majority of what is called legal, is in fact, not lawful. The Consider Podcast examining today’s wisdom madness and folly. www.consider.info

Timothy: Let us continue to consider Jury Manipulation.

Intro: Welcome to the Consider Podcast where the whole Gospel message is used to examine today’s wisdom, folly and madness. Acts 5:20, “Go stand and speak to the people in the temple the whole message of this life.” Join the hosts Timothy and Jacob, as they pick up their cross to follow Jesus as we pray that God enlightens the mind according to verse 25 of Ecclesiastes chapter 7. So, I turn my mind to understand to investigate to search out wisdom and the scheme of things and to understand the stupidity of wickedness and the madness of folly. (Ecclesiastes 7:25). The Consider Podcast, examining today’s wisdom, folly, and madness with the whole gospel. www.consider.info.

Timothy: How’s it going Jacob?

Jacob: It’s going good.

Timothy: Yesterday at this time we had like serious snowfall didn’t stick. Now we’ve got real problems. The sunshine is out.

Jacob: I like it.

Timothy: Jacob, why is it there’s so much corruption. Whether it be the legal corruption or corruption in the world or downtown or wherever. Why is the world just full of corruption?

Jacob: Because people are corrupt.

Timothy: And that’s not really an answer. That’s just a rephrasing of the question. So.

Jacob: Oh so.

Timothy: Why the corruption?

Jacob: Why the corruption?

Timothy: Yeah. In other words, if I were to say okay let’s get rid of all corruption. Any level. Whether it’s in the family or in the home and government on down the line. Because after all, it’s individuals that allow the corruption to continue Around us anyway. So why is, how would we get rid of corruption? What’s the solution? Because we could spend all day long whining about jury manipulation or the legal system or the Democrats or the Republicans. Just because the corruption is everywhere. So, you could just pick a topic. But that doesn’t offer anybody a solution.

Jacob: Corruption is sin and so the only way to solve sin is to repent.

Timothy: True. What is the sin though that allows the corruption to take place?

Jacob: Well, there can be a lot of sins because corruption could take place because somebody’s greedy, the love of money, you could have prosecutors that are just wanting to be high on power. There could be a variety of reasons why one person’s corruption then allows somebody else’s corruption.

Timothy: You’re correct. Let me hone that down or see if I can hone that down a little bit. The reason there is so much corruption is that we want something.

Jacob: Yup.

Timothy: The person who’s been wounded by their neighbor wants vengeance. The businessman that is greedy wants money. The prosecutors want power and the side benefit they don’t want to be examined, so the best way to do that of course is to constantly accuse other people. So, there what brings about and allows for corruption is really pretty simple. Each person just wants something. If there’s corruption in my life, then I just want something. What you have to deal with is the desire of what I want. Think of all the religious corruption that’s out there. Why is that, I’m kind of given the answer, but why is there so much religious corruption? I remember very early on and we were laughing about this this morning. I really have to up my game and say, 40 years ago or almost 50 years, but I’m going to go 40 years ago first started preaching, people were always complaining about the compromise in the church or wasn’t doing this part biblically.

Alright fine, so then I had a meeting where I brought all these people together meaning I invited them they came together and we then begin to pursue and I begin to present solutions. Okay, well let’s do this and this. Nobody wanted to. They want to spend their time whining about the corruption but not dealing with the corruption. I’m probably deviating a little bit, but why is it that we have so much corruption and we allow so much corruption?

Jacob: Why? Well, why do we allow? Well, it’s same thing that you said so everybody wants something so then or/and they want it more than doing away with the corruption. So, you can have people that whine about the corruption and then you’re like well what are you doing about it. And if they’re not doing anything then they desire their comfort or their position in life or whatever it may be, it’s not, the balance of dealing with the corruption does not outweigh. So, then all they do is whine about it.

Timothy: Bottom line is we want our particular corruptions while making the other person give up their corruption. But if we actually start to deal with their corruption in an effective manner, then we’re going to have to deal with our own corruption.

Jacob: Correct.

Timothy: Let’s go to John 12:25 because this is a solution to all corruptions. Right here, we’re going to look at John 12:25 & 26. Here is the solution to legal corruption, money corruption, let’s just go down the line, building airplane corruption where the planes are falling out of the sky and doors are falling off. You pick a corruption. This is the solution. John 12:25 & 26. Go ahead and read that Jacob.

Jacob: The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My father will honor the one who serves me.”

Timothy: Jesus is a man of truth. He calls himself. He is the truth, the embodiment of truth. Well, verse 25 says, “The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.” In other words, if I have religious corruption in my life or Christian corruption in my life, the only way to get rid of that is I have to hate the corruption. I have to hate my own life and then I’m willing to let go of the corruption. The person that is cheating when they come to build an airplane that’s eventually going to shatter and fall out of the sky. They have to hate their laziness or the unconcern or the like of love or the diligence and the self-discipline. They just want to take their check and go; I don’t know what actually motivates the specific and it really doesn’t matter.

The thing is the man building the airplane or the woman building the airplane doesn’t hate their own life doesn’t hate their own corruption. So, when they look at a piece that kind of doesn’t fit together and they don’t want to hassle with it, they’re not hating the laziness in their own life. That makes sense?

Jacob: Yup.

Timothy: So, the solution is not just to hate your own life. People kind of get when you first share the scripture people, they go, oh no, I hate my life. No, no, no. This isn’t like a suicidal thing or I hate this world. Almost everybody will say that. You have to do verse 26 of John 12. “Whoever serves me must follow me.” It is only by hating my own life, my own corruptions, my own sins then I turn and begin to follow Jesus Christ who is the embodiment of truth who then can work righteousness whole truth, and purity in my life. That’s really the only type of true Christians called the disciple of Jesus. “My father will honor the one who serves me.” If you want the truth, if you want to deal with corruption, guess what? It begins with you and it begins with me. It begins on an individual level. Before I ever start looking at say what politicians are doing or before I can say, what the person building the airplane is or law enforcement or those in prison or lawyers or prosecutors.

Unless I’m an absolute total hypocrite which there are plenty of those because why? People love the corruption of being a hypocrite, don’t they? You don’t have to deal with anything and you can feel all superior and then you can point fingers at everybody else. If I hate my pride, if I hate those things, I’m going to allow Jesus as I follow him to work the truth within me. Now, the world’s going to crucify you but we know that story. Any comment before we move on because I want to offer the solution here. We’re not just whining. We’re not just complaining. This is a real viable, real solution to the corruption that’s in the legal system or the jury pool or whatever it might be. All you got to do is say, look, everybody here hate their own life. Hate their pride that wants to condemn a man or hate your life that wants to let them go, hate your opinions, hate your thoughts, and let Jesus Christ give us the truth of what his love and righteousness and justice would work. Make sense?

Alright, go ahead and play the clip that says, savior self from this corrupt generation because this is what really these podcasts are about. I’m not trying to reform the world because Jesus going to come back and burn it all down and start over. It can’t be reformed but you can call people to repentance out of it.

Video: It’s time to get razor sharp. Double edge sword razor sharp. Sharper than any sword in the world sharp. Scripture sharp. Ready? Here it is. Peter preached save yourselves from this corrupt generation. Acts 2:40. “Not save yourself from sins, not save yourself from democrats, not save yourself from Armageddon, but saved from this corrupt generation. This generation’s corrupted religion, this generation’s corrupted laws, this generation’s corrupted hearts and lives.” The Consider Podcast. Podcast. www.consider.info. Where the rubber meets the road.

Timothy: We won’t do it today because we’ve already done a good year’s worth of podcast. Acts 2:40 says, “With many other words.” These podcasts are really just many other words with a pleading to save yourself from this corrupt generation. This is nothing more than a plea for King County Seattle prosecutors to save themselves from the corruption that not only have condemned innocent men, but also condemned innocent individuals and have just corrupted the whole legal system. This is a pleading to repent and that is the beginning and the end of the whole discussion. You know, Jacob, begin to bump into some people making a comment as I put these together and they listen to podcasts. They’ll go, man, it must really be bad in the town or the city or the state that you live in is if everything I’m talking about is kind of out of the norm.

It’s human nature to want to kind of bury our heads in the sand. We want to love our own life. We don’t want to look up and look around because then the responsibility becomes huge. Most people just want to go to jury duty or not go and just kind of leave it at that, but if you actually take seriously and realize that every word and every step and everything that we do has eternal significance. That’s a cross to carry, right?

Jacob: Correct.

Timothy: And most people just don’t want to carry the cross. Tell them and we were talking about this the other day like okay is it really that bad or they just not noticing?

Jacob: I think it’s a combination I was looking up the other day. There were some stats on jury duty which are hard to track because there’s a lot of counties. But if you look at a state court level or a federal court level, the percentage of the population out of millions of Americans is actually quite low. So, the only reason I say that is because a lot there’s people’s perspective of the, excuse me. People’s perspective of the entire court system, right? Unless you’ve had a family member that’s gone through it. There’s a lot of people that just have never even served on a jury in their life. A lot of people have been completely untouched from by the judicial system at all.

So, some of it is ignorance. Some of it, yeah, maybe it is wishful thinking that like it’ll never happen to me. I mean to be honest, even with the hate crime that happened to us. Up until that point, I would have never guessed that the police officer could just make up, you know what I mean? Like until it happened, I did never know too how bad it is. You don’t know how bad it until you’ve gone through it.

Timothy: I’m still staggering shake my head that he was able to make it up.

Jacob: Nobody bothered to do checks and balances. There was zero checks and balance.

Timothy: Well, he was able to commit horrendous crimes and they just remain silent. They just won’t say anything and let’s just let it run. I hear you. It is.

Jacob: So, but that’s just my point. Until it happens to you, you don’t know. So even though a lot of people they’re like wow oh man you know the things you’re talking about. Wow, that sounds bad. Well, it is that bad but you’ve never bumped into it yet.

Timothy: That is correct. I can remember one point among many situations. I was talking to a police officer. I forget, I think it was by email. I’m not sure and I said, yeah, I want to talk to the police officers and man, did I ever get slapped back down like don’t go there, don’t do that and so, I’m drawn back because you really expect these people to be normal.

Jacob: Correct.

Timothy: Yeah, you expect them to be rational and immoral like you and they’re not.

Jacob: Or not even moral but just rational.

Timothy: That’s true.

Jacob: Like you’re a regular citizen like why are you treating me like this but no, they are not. They are not regular citizens.

Timothy: And we’re talking about on just a human level.

Jacob: Yeah.

Timothy: Forget the fact you’re a police officer.

Jacob: Correct.

Timothy: Like, wait a minute, this is not how I have to obey. So, I know it’s staggering because it was just so basic and you go, wow, it’s really that corrupt. It’s all the way the core. Okay. Well, let’s press on a little bit as we move into things. Jacob, should ex-cons be allowed to vote? And there’s a sub question that we’ll get to. Should ex-cons, ex-prisoners be allowed to serve on jury duty.

Jacob: Oh, sure it’s two separate questions.

Timothy: Kinda sort of thing.

Jacob: I think that yes. I don’t know. I have no clue on the history of that law but in today’s, yeah, they should be able to do both. They should be able to have the opportunity to do both.

Timothy: Absolutely I agree. Especially when you look at jury duty, they weed out anybody that’s kind of. Well, they weed anybody that has a little bit of intelligence.

Jacob: Exactly because if you’ve been to prison.

Timothy: Correct.

Jacob: You been through that system. So, you should at least have the shot to show up and be selected for jury duty, right?

Timothy: And you know the dirty tricks.

Jacob: And you know the dirty tricks.

Timothy: You know the lying of the prosecutors and I was kind of just thinking about this this morning on jury duty. I’ll come back to the voting thing here in a moment. At least allow ex-cons, prisoners to serve as an advisory to the jury. If you don’t want to go all the way and go, well, they’re vengeance that will spare me the hyperbole moralistic talk. You asked, you are literally asking to lie like, will you set aside your opinions? And they all go, yeah. So, everybody does it at least with there’s a lot of ex-cons who know their ex-cons who are just realistic about the system. And if you’re serving on jury duty at a minimum, there should at least be one maybe two that serve, so they could input and comment into the juries that are back there trying to deliberate between guilty and not guilty and offer their advice. That’s a minimum.

Now do I think they should be able to serve on jury duty? Absolutely, I think so. For one thing then then I can just hear the prosecutors whining and I can hear the legislators just screaming like, well you can’t do that you can’t allow that. Yeah, I could if you cleaned up the laws so they were clear and there wasn’t this corruption of parole and this and that and 50,000 other things. There’d be this clear definition of what is right and wrong and where to go and who these people are, whether they should be let loose or not. Instead, we see it’s a complete corruption where you just don’t know which laws are going to apply to person or for which reason, and it just gets all complicated. Then it gets into the system and if they were this or they were that and then if they’re on the parole or we’ll do this or that, you get my point. It just gets corrupted and eventually of course the prisoners or the ex-cons they just give up. It’s just bad parenting.

Jacob: Correct.

Timothy: Scripture says we’re not supposed to exasperate our children. We are a nation that is exasperated by prosecutors and by the laws and the legislators. Because you eventually throw up your hands and go, what’s the point of trying. Because the no law is clear. Everything is broad and then if a prosecutor gets up in the morning, if she’s a woman and it’s a bad time of the month, she’s just going to come after you because she just feels like it and of course, the feminized prosecutors in there will allow all the emotions to run wild. We were flat out. Well, if we believe it, we’re going to do it. Well, I can’t argue belief but I can argue facts. I can argue evidence. I can be rational but they throw all that out of the window. Back again, should ex-cons be allowed to vote?

Jacob: Well again I think nowadays yes. I don’t know again the history of all that. I don’t know the history, I bet you if you go read the history of why they took those supposed rights away. I wouldn’t be shocked with the logic or the reason at the time, and by that, I mean even I know I’m going back to should cons be on jury duty. But even, well 100 years ago probably, right? Like the judges were much more fair, they were much more fair.

Timothy: I don’t know that that’s true.

Jacob: Well, that’s okay.

Timothy: I don’t really care what the reason is in the past.

Jacob: Yeah.

Timothy: The bottom line is the ex-con knows the system, they know what’s going on and there’s so much corruption in the law. Well, they’re the people I want to go to and go, okay, how did this all materialize to you? How did they corrupt thing? You know what? A lot of the cons will say I deserve to be here. I mean I committed the crime. Not obviously not everybody, but there’s a good that don’t deserve to be there or there for the wrong reasons, because of a plea bargain. And so, we got this fraud going on within judicial system. Well, who knows it better? You don’t go ask a prosecutor, you don’t ask a policeman, you certainly don’t ask a judge, well where’s the fraud? Because they don’t have any. It’s the cons that have experienced it. It’s you and I that have experienced. We could testify we could point specifically this, this and this. It’s not hard to, because we went through it.

Jacob: Well, okay but so I think I’m going to take a stab at only because we’re talking about now. Okay, let’s say there was a prosecutor named Bob. Let’s just say that there was a crime that happened and it was there was real evidence. We’re talking about real evidence that the guy stole stuff and Bob the prosecutor prosecutes him, right? He stole cars. I don’t know, but it was a real thing. Here he’s a criminal. He does his time. He’s back out on the streets and then he still may have this bias against the prosecutor that he put me in jail even though the guy is guilty. Because he maybe one of these people doesn’t freely admit, okay, yeah, I was a bad criminal. So, then his bias supposedly comes into the courtroom against this prosecutor and no matter because even again if the next case around is still a legitimate case, I’m guessing that’s where they threw that out right? They don’t want all the bias seeping into the courtroom.

Timothy: Well, that would hold true. Everything you said is actually a true.

Jacob: Well, but that’s probably back in the days when they came up with that kind of stuff. Nowadays it’s horrible.

Timothy: If they even offered an excuse today it’d be the same excuse. Here’s the problem with that. Everybody that comes into the jury system is bias. Everybody. And they’re weeding out anybody that would do any critical examination of the legal system. So, you have the same bias people sitting there. It’s just the bias you want.

Jacob: Okay, well so that’s the other question though that even if the felon had they would weed him out anyway. So, let’s just say he did have that right. He shows up for the jury selection process and then as soon as it’s revealed that he doesn’t like the prosecutors or he doesn’t like the particular judge. They’re going to weed him out anyways. So, I understand what you’re saying. You are correct. Like everybody has a bias just as a matter of which way and who they’re going to get rid of.

Timothy: Man, I didn’t know I was going to open a whole discussion, but I’m in no rush. Okay, here’s the solution to that problem. They can only weed out so many people. So, if all of a sudden, we passed a law that said, anybody that’s an ex-con that serve their time and it’s done and over with kind of situation can’t serve on a jury pool and show up, right? They can’t get rid of everybody. This is a huge segment of the population. Our government and the conservative Christians and everybody that was all for law and order versus justice has created this huge pool of vindictiveness and bias and all kinds of problem, but it’s actually based on a great deal of truth. So, all I’m saying is it would have an effect on the system. I think what would happen if it and we’re in fantasy land here really.

Jacob: Yeah.

Timothy: If it happen prosecutor and judges and then would start cleaning up their act.

Jacob: I would think yes.

Timothy: This is nothing more than a quality control report.

Jacob: Correct. It’s just another form of checks and balances.

Timothy: Correct. It’s just a matter of that.

Jacob: Everybody be able to say their peace. They have the right to say what, the con would have the right to say what happened to them.

Timothy: There should at least be an evaluation report for every judge and prosecutor that had ever experienced in a Toronto. What do you think? Was they fair, was this? Was it true?

Jacob: Yeah.

Timothy: Go down the line. There’s no quality check except them of course which means there’s not only is there not quality check.

Jacob: There is none.

Timothy: There’s like pat me on the back kind of thing.

Jacob: Correct? But I agree. By giving cons these rights back would certainly only benefit the system. It would not hinder it.

Timothy: The discussion would be led like this. Like this is just one minor point. So, you throw that out. All the graffiti, the red flags go up. Everybody’s whining. What you would condense down is a complete, it would actually cause a reform of the judicial system. You’d have to look at every single aspect rather than just one prosecutor viewpoint that oh we just need to punish everybody.

Jacob: Yeah.

Timothy: And we just need to have the death penalty and vengeance and that kind of thing. It would open up the whole discussion where all points would come together. I’m not saying there would be a blanket law that says, okay, anybody and everybody that was in prison should be allowed to serve on a jury or do whatever but it is a starting point to open it up and the gifts. Look, bottom line, somebody serves their time and it’s over with. They should be returned to full citizenship. They did their time.

Jacob: Correct. They did their time.

Timothy: That’s just honest. That’s just true. They should be able to put on their record. I was never arrested; he served his time they did their duty if we let them loose and be out there in society and they paid the price then they should be free. That’s what freedom means. Which means jury duty which means what serving in every capacity getting any job there because you did your time you paid your penalty. Now I know people will whine and this is good and getting long, but would we not then consider some real reforms in society not just legal? Let me give any just one quick example that I hope I can move through pretty fast. You find a lot of women teachers sleeping with students. Oh, send her to prison. Everybody wants to come down. You put them into the same system. Well, why is this continuing to increase? The reason it’s increasing is because we’re sexualizing the schools.

So, all of a sudden you say, well, if she serves her time she can vote and she can serve on jury duty. What are you going to do? You’re going to be go, well, you know what? I don’t want these people into the system. I don’t want to create the crime in the first place. Is not the solution. So, what you do is you go back and go well how can we clean up the schools so the schools are a moral respectable place for children to go to. Wouldn’t that fix more of the problem Jacob?

Jacob: Yeah, I would but yeah, that’ll never happen.

Timothy: No. but I would be sure my opinion in jury pool. Go ahead.

Jacob: Yeah. No, no, no. Yeah. No. I get what you’re saying.

Timothy: Alright. So, are you against Jacob, against or for the death penalty?

Jacob: Ooh okay, oh man, well no I’m for it.

Timothy: You’re for the death penalty, why?

Jacob: In certain cases. Why?

Timothy: Well, okay. I’m sure you’re not jaywalking; it could get there.

Jacob: You stole a car? Why am I for it? so, gut reaction I’m for it because biblically there were certain crimes, certain crimes you died.

Timothy: Alright.

So, I think I mean especially if we want to say that, we’re a Christian nation, we were based off of Christian values. Then okay great hold to the values. Certain things you didn’t do.

Timothy: Here my position. I’m for the death penalty in principle but not in the United States.

Jacob: Oh well, exactly and that yeah, that’s the thing because you legitimately have yeah, I know where you’re going.

Timothy: Play the clip of this and this is actually a prisoner. I think he’s on parole whatever, but he, enjoyable is a wrong word but I have listened to quite a bit of what he does. He does a really good job. He communicates well. Now it’s a worldly viewpoint. He’s not claiming to be a Christian. So go ahead and play this particular clip.

Video: Let’s talk about the death penalty in the United States of America. There are five means by which they will execute you if you are sentenced to death in the United States. Lethal injection, electrocution, lethal gas, hanging or firing squad. Here’s my question. If they let you pick which one, would you choose? Y’all know I’m not taking no lethal injection because I’m scared of needles. I’m not going to take electrocution because I know I’m probably going to *** my pants when I die no matter how I die, but I don’t want to be aware of *** my pants while I’m dying. Hanging absolutely not bro. I don’t want my eyes to pop out of my head when I’m dying. I don’t, I just feels uncomfortable. Seems like it would be a bad deal.

Now if you get hit by that firing squad and they do it right man. It’s over in a flash bro. You ain’t going to feel nothing. And the lethal gas almost sounds like getting so high that you die. And that seems like a comfortable way to go out. But which one would you guys choose? Let me know down there in the comments.

Timothy: Kinda my point real quick that if we’re going to seek out and what we should do with death penalty or not or this other. These are the people I’d want to talk to.

Jacob: Sure.

Timothy: Not the person that’s in charge of the medications or this particular political group and so on and so forth. Alright. You’re for the death penalty. I’m for the death penalty in principle. But not in the United States because why? What have you been talking about? There’s too much corruption.

Jacob: Corruption.

Timothy: What’s motivating the corruption and we’ll get to this in a moment. What’s motivating the corruption within the death penalty issue? Go ahead and play. Hang it. I’ll let you think it through. Play this next clip because it kind of, it really gives us a hand as if you couldn’t figure it out but go ahead and play I can’t pronounce it. “Fosse in prison there”.

Video: Let’s talk about Aiden Fucci and what’s about to happen to his *** now that he just got sentenced to life in prison. Aiden stabbed this 13-year-old girl to death. He stabbed her 114 times. And another really relevant factor is what state is he going to be serving his time in, and unfortunately for Aiden he’s in the state of Florida. So, let’s break this down into simple math. The crime of killing a teenage girl in the state of Florida when he gets to prison, he is most certainly getting penetrated. It might be a shank; it might be a deal. He’s going to get beat up, stabbed, pissed on, beat with a lock in his sock. They’re going to put **** in his food. No matter how much money his parents send him, he’s never going to have nothing. Except the state issued stuff that they give him because nobody wants that crap. Anything else that he ever gets for the rest of his life. They’re going to take from him with violence. And it’s not like his mama’s going to be able to help him out with no money anyway because she caught charges for trying to help cover up what he did to that poor little girl.

Timothy: Alright Jacob, you’re four against you were getting ready to expound on that a little bit on the death penalty. Go ahead.

Jacob: Well, no wait because now I feel like you’re, the question’s going to be, should this guy be put to, should he? Well, no the video.

Timothy: Don’t try and anticipate you do that a lot. Don’t anticipate where I’m going with it because that’s I’d like that one but we don’t have time for.

Jacob: I can’t even remember now. What wait, so I was saying I was pro death penalty but what was the question?

Timothy: Or you for against the death penalty.

Jacob: Well, no I agree with you that I’m for the death penalty but in in this country you’re getting there is no justice. So, although well to bring it back to a conversation that we’ve had previously which is that nobody really wins. Like the families go to this the execution date, right? They get to observe if they want. The guy dies and then what? I guess for some people I think some people are quoted as like, oh yeah, justice was done. I can move on with my life but you know what I mean like really?

Timothy: Sure. Well, you’re on to really what the main corruption is. It’s vengeance.

Jacob: Yeah, vengeance.

Timothy: There’s a fraud within the law where prosecutors have substituted the word “justice” or the word “vengeance” with justice. And most people’s mind, there it’s the same word that if they don’t get vengeance through the justice system, they don’t get justice and those are two different issues completely. Actually, no, I’m still against the whoever they is Fosse guy getting the death penalty. The crimes he did are horrendous. That’s not the point. But the prosecutors and leaves them always use these people as an excuse to flood the whole system with complete corruption. So, the only way to clean this up would be to go, no, you can’t put anybody to death and you better take care of his life in prison because you put him away and you can’t take him to the death penalty. You’re now responsible for his safety in prison. But here’s what’s going on. People don’t want that. They want vengeance. Remember John 12:25, “The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life.” You have to hate your vengeance in order to get a truth about what should or should not be done.

The OJ Simpson is a classic example of and I’m saying this as sensitive as I can on a podcast where the family are living in a constant state of vengeance. And you can tell it’s from what you’re saying. It’s never going to be enough ever. OJ just died and they’re still suing for more money. They’re eating a lie by it, but here’s the ironic thing. You have this prisoner guy talking about prison life and he’ll be miserable. Even within a prison, is there not judgments on, well, that’s a worse crime than my crime.

Jacob: Oh yeah, that’s what he’s like that last video. He’s saying that other inmates will kill that kid. It’s that’ll happen.

Timothy: Correct. So, within a prison, there’s this whole looking down on somebody else. Well, I didn’t do crime and then we’re going to inflict justice or punishment. There’re even cases where a lot of times someone who’s in there for abusing somebody will be killed by another prisoner and the prisoner will go, yeah, I did it and he has a sense of righteousness and what he did. But he’s a prisoner who’d also committed crimes.

Jacob: Well, oh yeah, but that’s like another can of worms only that, I mean these guys in prison are violent. I mean they want to be violent so then yeah, it’s somebody in prison decided who you get to shank and not shank, but they all, not all but a bunch of them just want to shank somebody.

Timothy: I’m going to have to sidetrack.

Jacob: I know.

Timothy: Okay. Now, we’re talking about reforming the actual prisons, the style of the prison.

Jacob: Well, why do people do what they do?

Timothy: And are we doing everything in our power within prison to ensure this kind of violence and vengeance. Yes, there’s nothing about prison that’s actually reforming anybody. We don’t even have that mindset or even trying or if we do, society kind of goes bananas. My main point here is that, okay, within a prison, you walk up on a prison wall, you go to visit. Within that prison are different judgments about who’s worse and who’s not.

Jacob: Absolutely.

Timothy: Who deserves to be beat up. I mean the one guy may enjoy it. I mean the prosecutor clearly, they said they were happy to go after us and destroy the church and throw us out of town and make sure that the truth can’t get in. They were, they actually used the word “happy”. So, what I’m getting to here is we’re all prisoners in this world and we have to think that we’re going, we’re headed to judgement and God has looked at us and said we are all every single person Worthy of hell. Hitler is worthy of hell. I was worthy of hell until Jesus saved me. In the same way, there is nobody just like in the prison. They’re all prisoners. They’re all guilt. Well, they’re all guilty of something. Let’s assume. They’re all in there for crimes that they committed in a perfect world.

Jacob: Supposedly.

Timothy: Alright. Yeah, I get it.

Jacob: I know.

Timothy: So, you get my point.

Jacob: Yes, I get your point.

Timothy: All we’re doing really is we want vengeance. We want our system of justice.

Jacob: Our version of it too, right? We want the vengeance and we want it our way. Everybody has their way that they want it done.

Timothy: Exactly.

Jacob: Yeah.

Timothy: Scripture’s very clear. God says, “Vengeance is mine.” We’ll look at that here in just a moment. No political, I hesitate to mention any dialogue that I go on social media, so because I’ve always kind of considered it unfair somebody quote you over here but you’re not really there to communicate it. So, I’m trying to be anonymous about all this. Somebody discusses with policemen, policemen will refer to the people that they arrest, not all of them but a lot of them as the scum of the earth. They think they’re better than the scum of the Earth. They think that they don’t deserve to be punished but the other person does. When really, we’re all in the same prison, we’re all have committed crimes against God. It’s just a matter of when we get to hell. It’s just a matter of moving through the system. Nobody’s improving themselves in this world in and of themselves. It takes Jesus Christ to do that. If we saw how worthless we were then we wouldn’t look at the most horrendous crimes and go, oh, how bad they need to be beat up. This needs to happen.

Instead, we would be going I need to repent and if I repent, I want to preach to them to repent. Should they pay for their crime? Well of course. Should there be the death penalty? Of course. But not within the current prison system because you’ve only got the prisoner that’s imprisoned for life that kills the abuser does, he not deserve to be punished for doing that Jacob?

Jacob: So, like the kid who stabbed the teenage girl?

Timothy: Yeah, say somebody wax him off and kills him which is probably likely.

Jacob: Oh, well yeah, but that’s why a lot of guys are in prison for life because they’ll get charges tacked on top of their charges. They never get out.

Timothy: Correct and so killing another guy and feeling superior in judgment. We do the same thing.

Jacob: Yeah.

Timothy: We just think, okay, we’re all guilty. We’re all sinners whatever and then we proceed to torment our brother or to demand vengeance, when we’re really praying against our own judgement. If you pray to the living God and say, God I want vengeance over here or I’m seeking vengeance on no matter what they did to me. If you’re not, as Jesus said, “If you don’t forgive somebody from the heart you will be condemned.” You’re only praying against yourself. You are literally telling God, God I hate them. I want this. I want this done. I want you to bring justice. God to say, okay, everybody that’s my enemy I will bring justice. That includes those kinds of people. Alright, go ahead and play this OJ Simpson clip and he actually the same prisoners talking about that situation. Go ahead.

Video: Oh, and in breaking news cancer got the juice, and I don’t care if he was found innocent. He still sucks as a human being like on a spiritual level. OJ Case is one of those trials where I really feel like it just didn’t get done right, but they were able to create enough reasonable doubt for him to not get convicted. And that’s a real-life thing in our system, and we genuinely need that. Because it’s much better for someone who did something terrible to get away than for the wrong person an innocent to get convicted of something that they didn’t do. But even after he was found innocent, this piece of trash went on to make this book “If I Did It”. It just tells you basically if he did it this is how he would have done it. Just another way for him to cash in on the crime that I feel like he got away with. And the courts felt that way too, and they decided that they were going to give all of the money from his book to the families of the victims.

And I hate cancer with all of my heart. It’s taking people that I absolutely love. But yo, even a broken clock is right twice a day. So, bye OJ. Bye.

Jacob: Yeah, guy is pretty funny.

Timothy: Okay. As rough as I mean in term of…

Jacob: A lot of what he said. I mean a lot of it is okay, yeah.

Timothy: Without Jesus Christ it makes total sense.

Jacob: Oh yeah.

Timothy: Would you not want him serving on a jury.

Jacob: I want him on my jury.

Timothy: Oh yeah, you want him on your jury, he’s communicated, he’d be too swaying by the people. He really has it down.

Jacob: He does, he actually does have it down. The whole, the system like you got to let these innocent people go. That’s better than other people getting hooked. He’s correct.

Timothy: And I don’t know if this is a cop or not but he would make a great lawyer.

Jacob: Yeah. He’s very convincing.

Timothy: Yeah totally. Oh well, realistic for one thing it’s like this is the bottom-line point. The sad part is watching the family, they have tormented themselves because they can’t forgive and you can see why I don’t want to get into all the OJ trial type stuff guilty, not guilty that kind of routine. His main point that is better that OJ got off than innocent people go to prison is absolute is it right on.

Jacob: Very valid.

Timothy: Spot on.

Jacob: Yeah.

Timothy: And the judges will say that in fact.

Jacob: Except they don’t do it.

Timothy: Oh, they don’t try when Judge Lori K Smith turn all are glorious self-righteous. It’s better. I’m going to go one further. It’s better that a thousand people go free and yet everything that was done in the trial was to ensure that an innocent man went to prison. An absolute joke. We even gave her an opportunity to overturn after hearing all of the nonsense that went on. Nah, she wouldn’t do it. Of course not. Too puffed up in her own pride. Alright, a little bit about OJ before we press on. Look at Proverbs chapter 28 verse 17. When you get there, Jacob, just go and read that one. Proverbs chapter 28 verse 17.

Jacob: 28 verse 177. Proverbs 28:17, “A man tormented by the guilt of murder will be a fugitive till death; let no one support him.”

Timothy: We see that within OJ. While he’s talking about the book was just a confession for a way to cash in. Now if you look at that much deeper, he’s confessing and I’ve looked at several interviews he did. He shifts from the third person to himself. He is confessing that guilt. He can’t run from that what the but people need to realize. I know we tend to look at murders like they’re so hard they don’t feel anything, all of that kind of stuff. And that maybe true, I’m trying to discount that.

Jacob: Some people.

Timothy: On a normal.

Jacob: Yes.

Timothy: I can use normal in the sense of murder, but okay, and normal murder or whatever crime of passion an accident they’re tormented by that guilt.

Jacob: Yeah.

Timothy: One reason God a lot, because you think, well, why doesn’t God just come along and strike him? Why doesn’t God just you know didn’t take care of OJ a long time ago? Why did it just take cancer? Again, we’re back to we’re all in the same position. If God decided today, you know what? I’m going to destroy everybody that’s corrupt and I’m going to send immediately Right now, everybody that’s in full of sin and injustice, guess what? The whole world would just disappear.

Jacob: Yep.

Timothy: Look at Deuteronomy chapter 32 verse 35. Because if you serve on a jury pool, never ever, ever be taken in by the prosecutor or the judge’s statement about the word justice. There are so many words they’ve corrupted from reasonable. but probably at the top of the list is the word justice. When they say the word “justice”, you just need to put the truth right there in your mind and your heart. They mean vengeance. Send a message, be to, laugh’s a wrong word because this stuff is serious, but you laugh. It’ll hit the news some prosecutor. He’s proud of himself. He pats himself on the back and we’re send a strong message today against criminals. Really? Well, they’ve kind of missed the message.

Jacob: Yeah.

Timothy: So, you think you’re putting all this stuff out. You ain’t doing nothing but causing more problems. Here’s the promise for those that can accept it. Deuteronomy 32 verse 35. This is what God says. “It is mine to avenge.” There’s just peace and holiness and righteousness hidden right in there. I can leave that to God. While I certainly want God to reveal his truth. Reveal their crimes. And sooner than later that’s my position. I’m willing to wait on God. God, it goes on to say in Deuteronomy 32:35, “I will repay.” He’ll do it. And he’s perfect. He knows exactly how to do it. He knows, I mean I hate to say but let’s just pick worst criminal you think in prison. We don’t know that they’re going to repent. And that we don’t know that the Baptist cop who set us up and committed crimes is never going to repent. We don’t know which one is which.

So, we wait upon God to bring and on it let’s just get selfish about it if you have to go there. He’s trying to give you the listener a chance to repent. To accept all of his word. Goes on to say in Deuteronomy 32:35, “In due time.” Justice is coming. It is rolling forward. I have so much information on the corruption. God may have me reveal some of it now but if not, I’m preparing for the case that’s to come. “In due time, their foot will slip. Their day of disaster is near and their doom rushes upon them.” The problem is we are so self-centered and we want our justice at the moment. We don’t realize how fleeting life is. I don’t, you know, oh Jay commits the crime. He’s dead now. When you look at it in the context of eternity, it went by pretty fast.

Jacob: Yeah.

Timothy: If you just sitting there looking at the clock when he’s alive, he’s alive. I hate him. I hate him. I want my vengeance. I want my money. I want all that stuff. Every second of every minute takes on a sense of eternity and it just seems like it never ends and then of course, once he’s dead, once you got all the money, then when he got left, you’re left with vengeance all over again. We don’t have time to look at today. We’ve actually covered another podcast. Jesus says, “God will bring justice, but will he find faith on the earth.” Because people just don’t want to wait on God. We want everything now and when we do that, we rob ourselves of okay, how can I get this person to change or how can I glorify God or what’s the most loving thing to do.

Don’t we realize that when we deprive somebody else of rights because we want our vengeance. We’re attacking ourselves or we’re attacking our children who might get in trouble or the laws become more and more corrupt, they can arrest anybody. I guarantee you, everything’s, the laws are become crazy. It it’s eventually we’re just all going to be in prison, because there’s a law to cover anything and everything you do. If you’re breathing, you’re committing what? Social justice crime or destroying the environment.

Jacob: You’re infecting, you’re spreading COVID.

Timothy: COVID, there you go. That’s right. You didn’t wear a mask. This is very real stuff.

Jacob: Yeah. No, this is happening.

Timothy: Yeah.

Jacob: They’re making up these laws.

Timothy: Alright. We got to press on. I don’t think we’re ever going to get to Jan’s testimony with totally fine. There’s plenty to talk about. Go ahead and play. Here’s what we need to do. Prosecutors have lost their privileges. Bottom line, they shouldn’t be allowed to change charges. We’ve covered that. There needs to be within anybody going into a jury pool the thought of who’s causing greater harm. Right now, you have prosecutorial discretion. What that really means is prosecutor can do whatever they want. If they don’t like you, they can prosecute you. If they don’t like your religion, if the cop doesn’t like your religion your Christianity, he can twist it up do everything he wants. You’ll be arrested, you’ll be run out of town and somebody will falsely accuse. They have, that’s what prosecutor discretion means. They can just do whatever they want. It is lawlessness in the name of the law. They’ve lost that privilege.

So, what we need to do is demand that jurors consider and think and again, this is where ministries and churches and everything else. Look, back to our original point. There is so much corruption in every town, in every city. It just doesn’t get noticed. What you have to do is have the workers of Jesus Christ go into the courtroom and actually go visit the prisoners. That would solve the problem. Jesus didn’t say, go visit the police or the prosecutor, become all over, go visit the prisoners. Can you imagine? I would like really sit down with this guy for a week and just talk to him about every single aspect. Because you’re going to learn everything and then I could take that. The last person I’m going to go talk to is a prosecutor police, right?

Jacob: Correct.

Timothy: Not only that would be stupid, I’m not even really allowed to try and call a judge. I’ve tried to call and contact their offices, forget it. They got this wall around; you cannot get to them. Alright, fine you don’t want to talk, I’ll talk to the prisoners, I’ll do exactly what Jesus said to do and I will bring that into the jury pool. Go ahead and play the next clip that kind of describes as prosecutorial discretion and we want to replace it with greater harm.

Video: Jurors need to reject prosecutorial discretion. It’s time to reel in the corruption. Prosecutors have lost their privileges. It’s time for the principle of greater harm. Tune in to the Consider Podcast as we discuss the greater harm principle. “It is not good to be partial to the wicked or to deprive the innocent of justice.” (Proverbs 18:5). The Consider Podcast. Podcast. www.consider.info. Where the rubber meets the road.

Timothy: The principle of greater harm is really pretty simple, you sit down in the jury box and you decide, okay, who’s causing more harm here? The policeman, the judge or the person that’s actually on trial? The laws? If you come in with that attitude everything then is measured and what the judge and the prosecutor do to juries now is say, you’re just supposed to focus in on the crime or the law. Well, the focus is too narrow. I’m going to look and see who’s causing the greatest harm. What would happen if the police just went home? What would happen if the prosecutor just didn’t go for them at all? You follow what I’m saying?

Jacob: Oh yeah, I follow what you’re saying. I mean yeah, the injustice that’s served out in the courts is far more reaching and harmful to society as a whole. I’m using air quotes. Oh yeah, it’s damaging lives far beyond just the person that winds up in jail.

Timothy: Give it a controversial situation. We know that abortion clinics are mass murdering babies. Correct?

Jacob: Yeah. They’re mass murdering machines. Abortion clinics.

Timothy: Somebody goes into an abortion clinic. They protest nonviolently. That would be really a serious crime. Be violence upon violence. That’s not what we’re after. And we don’t have time to dive into how this is a little bit different than the gassing of Jews. This is babies being intentionally brought into a place of mass murder by their mothers which changes the dynamics here of guilt and what’s going on. But anyway, somebody’s accused of going to an abortion clinic. They block it. They block the door. It’s all peacefully done. They’re brought in before the courts, well the court does not allow them to talk about why they were doing what they were doing. The courts will not allow you to discuss well here’s the babies being torn apart. Here’s the torture that’s going on. These women are being destroyed because then what? You actually have an excuse for what you’re doing. A very valid excuse.

The principle of greater harm would go okay protesting and blocking abortion clinic is against the law. I may not even agree that that should be done. But who’s doing the greater harm here?

Jacob: The abortion clinic.

Timothy: That’s correct. So, they go free. The laws then would be cleaned up society, then would be changed and most importantly your soul would not be put in jeopardy because you went along with something you should never have gone along with. I’m not going to go in before a judge or a prosecutor and let them define for me. I’m not leaving my conscience at home, nor my thoughts, nor my logic that I’ve worked extremely hard and suffered against all the impurity and corruption in my own life just to give the prosecution. You just need to look at did they block the door, not block the door. Excuse me? Do I look stupid? It is the on my forehead stand for stupid? Don’t answer the question, Jacob. Play the jury duty goads and then we’re going to kind of move into Jan’s testimony about the Dog and Pony Show.

Video: Jury duty goads. Goad 1, if it’s not illegal, prosecutors need to shut up. Goad 2, plea bargains are the final word. Just say no to extortion. “Yes, is yes, no is no. Anything beyond is from the devil.” (Matthew 5:37). Goat 3. If liars for the prosecution are not punished. Judges are wicked. “If a ruler listens to lies, all his officials become wicked.” (Proverbs 29:12_. Let us consider Jury Duty on The Consider Podcast. The Consider Podcast. www.consider.info, where the rubber meets the road.

Timothy: Jacob had interviewed Jan who went for jury duty state of Washington and while that selection process was going on the King County Seattle, they’re all the same. But openly, stated to everybody in the jury pool that if you’ve been through this jury process, you’ve been through this “ Dog and Pony Show” before. We agree in the last show, that’s probably the only truthful thing that actually got said. Jacob, go and play the bumper and then we want to move right into continue with Jan’s testimony about what she experienced.

Video: October 2006, jury selection, courtroom 4G, Seattle King County Prosecutors. Prosecutor Paul Sewell. Been selected for jury duty before, then you know it’s a dog and pony show. So, justice is driven back and righteousness stands at a distance. “Truth has stumbled in the streets. Honesty cannot enter.” (Isaiah 51:14). The Consider Podcast. www.consider.info. Where the rubber meets the road.

Timothy: We’ll take kind of a little breather here, Jacob. Any comments you want to make before we kind of move forward with Jan’s testimony?

Jacob: No.

Timothy: Alright, well then let’s just pick up kind of where we left off and I’ll interrupt you as normal. If you feel free to interrupt me in the process.

Jan: And so, we went up to his courtroom and again there’s 50 of us. It’s just it was a very small courtroom. And I wondered how are we all going to get in there.

Jacob: Sure.

Jan: So, people went in and they all sat down and of course there wasn’t enough room and then the judge said, okay well, everybody just go up to the jury box that are left that are still looking for seats. So, we went up and kind of…

Timothy: Let me kind of interrupt and ask you a question Jacob. She makes mention of how small the rooms were and it seemed to, I’m not…

Jacob: In a particular courtroom. It’s the only one she said was small.

Timothy: That’s totally fine. This is not a judgmental question. It’s an informational request. Why did it bother so much that the room was small? Clearly, it was and clearly was having an effect because she keeps stating it or is emphasis point. So, there’s something scenario there that I’m not quite understanding. Do you know?

Jacob: My only guess is I think it’s the, well the whole situation she’s never been to jury duty so this whole thing is new. The experience is probably uncomfortable. She admitted that she actually did not want to be there. I think what made it uncomfortable is the room was so small that they some of the people had to go up and sit in the jury box. So, I think that’s what makes it a little bit extra bit uncomfortable for her. It’s not like you go into the courtroom and you sit on all those benches in the back, and then you talk the benches in the back were full so they were then ushered up into the jury box. So, it almost seems like you’re already on the jury when you’re not on the jury.

Timothy: I think and you correct me if I’m wrong. I think there’s something emotionally going deeper. Meaning, you already are feeling very uneasy about what’s going on. Obviously, she knows from Knowledge. You’re beginning to feel very claustrophobic and without really being able to make a choice on what you’re doing. There’s no freedom. I don’t want to go too deep with it but just a sense of you’re not comfortable. There’s nowhere to go. You don’t know what’s going on. It doesn’t seem the tension is building on multiple levels and I think it’s coming out toward the size of the room. Had they, I don’t know, been playing elevator music, somebody walking along a tour group, here’s the Bill of Rights, here’s this. Oh yeah, we’re a little crowd talking it through. It might have been pleasure although I have it’s like kind of flying in a plane. I don’t know. There’s only so much do.

Jacob: Yeah.

Timothy: Continue on. I was just curious.

Jan: I was one of the ones that went up to the jury box. And then at that point they told us some things about the case.

Jacob: Okay.

Jan: And so, this particular case was a state of Washington versus Bernard Bella Roach. The crime was there was an assault charge and a drive-by shooting at an Arco Gas Station in Federal Way. So, we were introduced to the prosecutor Paul Sewell and the defense attorney and the accused. He is there too.

Jacob: Is he like in a, oh, okay first backup. The prosecutor was Paul. What’d you say? Sawal or Seawal?

Jan: Paul, well Paul Sewell. I pronounced it Sewell.

Jacob: Oh Sewell.

Jan: Paul SEWELL.

Jacob: Okay, got it. He’s the prosecutor. Do you remember who was on the other side? Who was the defense? Do you remember that?

Jan: No. I don’t. I don’t and I think he was an assigned by the court.

Jacob: One of the, okay yes. Okay.

Timothy: Pause it there, Jacob. Actually, that’s more significant than it appears. The defense is not what is standing out. Meaning that the state owns the prosecution process. The judge is working for the prosecutors. Everything is designed to point to the prosecutor and what they’re saying. There’s nothing about this that is saying this is an equal battleground and we want to get to the truth. There there’s none of that. The prosecution them literally own it. They go so as far. They have what’s called Child’s Court, and suppose a child says so and so did something to me. They actually go to a play court where they go through and get used to the system. There’s no way this is kind of a neutral thing. These prosecutors and judges are manipulating these children to feel relaxed about whatever they’re going to say. I’m not saying they may not have been abused but the problem is the court system is not punishing those who lie and make false accusations.

So, the only thing got going on is an increase in lying and using all the systems of the state to produce a lie that’ll come in to win the court case. Make sense? Significant, I know she’s more focused on the responsibility. She knows what these prosecutors and judges are really up to but it is significant, I don’t remember at all. Because man, that that’s not your concern and the state wants it that way. They want you focused in on them and they’re going to weed on anybody that would object to that so that you will do in the end what it is they want. Do they win every time? No. Does the casino win every time? No. But that’s not to deny that we’re talking about huge manipulation going on.

Jacob: Public defender. That’s what he would be. Okay and so then the mister Gains don’t they always do mister and missus, right? Mister Gains was there. Was he in like an orange jumpsuit or they had already cut him loose out of jail?

Jan: No wait, wait. No. Mister Gains. That was the judge.

Jacob: Oh, that’s the judge. Okay sorry. I’m getting, I’m sorry. I’m getting my names and stuff. Oh no Bernard. Careful there. Bernard yes. No, no, no. Okay. I bet that’s why we’re talking about it. Okay, so Judge Gains Bernard was the guy they were going after and is he in a jumpsuit or is he, you know what I mean? Or is he free?

Jan: No, he’s not free. Yeah.

Jacob: Okay. And so, you’re in the jury box and then so what happens next?

Jan: Okay, so we’re introduced to these people like I said and you know everyone’s very quiet and everything. Some of the jurors are relaxed. Others are really nervous and tense and stuff. So, the judge asked does anybody have any hardships? And so different you know people brought up different hardships. I mean some were legitimate you know.

Jacob: Like what? What’s legitimate? Who he let them? Yeah.

Jan: Like one person I mean okay this person was having surgery had surgery scheduled because this case was supposed to last for two and a half weeks. One person had surgery scheduled, do you know? Another person, but some people had weird excuses like I don’t like being around murderers and crimes and stuff and fearing about this stuff. Can I leave, you know?

Jacob: Yeah.

Jan: And another person had, well, I have fear of Being around people. Can I leave?

Jacob: Did he let them off?

Jan: I don’t know.

Jacob: Okay, I see.

Jan: Because I couldn’t I couldn’t really keep track of everybody, you know? He didn’t say it on the spot.

Jacob: Oh. I see. They’re making notes. Is that what’s happening?

Jan: Yeah.

Jacob: They’re writing stuff down. Okay. Alright.

Jan: They’re making notes or someone else said…

Timothy: Plus, questionnaire, plus whether you donated to the local children’s court fund. Plus, plus, plus. They’re dragging this out 223 days so people know weeding out people by that process because you really got to want to persevere to keep coming back through this Dog and Pony Show.

Jan: Someone else said, I’ve worked in the sheriff’s office for decades and I’m a very opinionated person.

Jacob: Okay.

Jan: So, people, they all gave their different excuses and stuff and then, some people they did let go then and then other people then at that point after everyone gave their reasons and stuff the judge just dismissed us for the day.

Jacob: So, you weren’t trying to get out of it.

Jan: I wasn’t trying to get out of it. No.

Jacob: And then that was it. They cut you loose.

Jan: That was it for that day and they go, please come back tomorrow morning. Okay, so then we all come back the next day and so it has been we have our final pool of 50 jurors.

Jacob: Okay.

Jan: And then we all went back to the courtroom. Some of those people got released, some didn’t. I don’t know which one? So, anyway, so then the judge, he starts telling us, okay, he has four rules for jurors. And those are, they’re pretty straightforward I thought but anyway, one was no discussing of the case with anyone including family, friends, or other jurors. That at deliberation, you can talk to the other jurors about the case but.

Jacob: Okay.

Jan: Nothing until then. No looking up information about the case online. No going to any locations mentioned in the case, and no outside research.

Jacob: Okay.

Jan: Then he told us that we’re going to be using this method of jury selection called the Oprah Doctor Phil method. And what that meant is all the jurors are going to participate in a group discussion. That when a question is asked, we’re all given these numbers. They’re really big numbers. And so, when a question is ask it’s our, it’s your opportunity to raise up your number and you can share your viewpoint.

Jacob: What number were you?

Jan: I don’t remember what my number.

Jacob: Oh, you don’t remember? Oh okay.

Jan: Maybe 247 or something.

Jacob: Oh, it was a big number. They didn’t go like one through 50.

Jan: No. It was not.

Jacob: But they because they didn’t call you by name though, right? They were like juror number two, whatever blah blah blah. Oh okay. Now what is this? I literally have never heard. Again, I never been on a jury. That’s what he said. We’re using the Oprah Doctor Phil method.

Jan: That’s what he called it. Yes.

Jacob: But isn’t Oprah and Doctor Phil are like, it’s TV.

Jan: Yeah.

Jacob: Its fake.

Jan: Exactly.

Jacob: Why are we using, what did you think of that at the time? Okay when you first heard it, what did you, what were you thinking?

Jan: At the time I thought oh my goodness this is like an encounter group that I’ve been in you know in the back in the 60s or something.

Jacob: Sure. So, did you?

Jan: We’re using some kind of encounter group method.

Jacob: Oh, weird. Okay, so you thought it was odd at the time too? Because I think it’s odd as we talk about it.

Jan: I thought it was very odd too that you would use like TV personalities

Timothy: Let’s stop right there. It is not just odd; it is full on corruption. Do we understand and we’ve ranted yesterday or the last podcast about that, right? So, ranting again almost like, okay. You get my point. This is an encounter group. They might as well have gone around. You know, what’s the what do they call the thing where you stand and then you fall backward and the person catches you.

Jacob: Oh, like a trust.

Timothy: Yeah, trust. Look, what I didn’t go. I don’t come to jury duty to engage in their psychological evaluation. Maybe if they just said, well, we’re use the Gilligan’s Island approach because Gilligan’s Island has a nice episode about justice and the overreaching of the law. Okay, let’s watch this Gilligan’s Island where Gilligan becomes sheriff and we’ll discuss that. Yeah, I might have gone for that but alright, let’s back up. Oprah, come on. Liberal is they come. A social influence. On the one hand, you get this adjustment. No, we’re looking at anything else. No examining anything else, right? Don’t even go to the location. The cops don’t even do that anymore. They just make up the accusation, right detective McCall? So, you don’t even go, you can’t location. You can’t do anything else, right? Right? Right, Jacob?

Jacob: Yup.

Timothy: No outside influences, right? Because outside influences are what, Jacob?

Jacob: They’re bad.

Timothy: They’re bad. They’re evil. Would you say they’re wicked? Like, you had a corrupt justice, right? No outside influence, right? Is Oprah an outside influence?

Jacob: Yes.

Timothy: So, on the one hand, mister hypocrite judge says, no, no, no, don’t go out there but on the, oh now, we’re going to pull in these influences And anybody who watches Oprah or is aware of the news, are they not automatically influenced by outside forces immediately?

Jacob: Yes.

Timothy: Absolutely. Is Oprah pro-abortion? Yes. Is Oprah everything that would be against good moral decent lies? Absolutely. Easily proved and you’ve just brought entertainment into the court system the philosophy of Oprah into the courtroom. You know what I would think of if they said that? If they said, think of Oprah? Okay, let me back up. That make sense Jacob? You’re bringing, you are massively committing a huge fraud here a swindle. It’s like the moving of the nuts around with the pee or the coin underneath. That’s all this judge did. See, don’t look under this one don’t look under that one.

Jacob: Yeah.

Timothy: But we’re going to look under this one over here.

Jacob: Yes.

Timothy: It is and this is just one manipulation out of so many. But anyway, if they just said to me think of Oprah. You know what my thought is? I even hate to bring this up. But oh, Oprah loves her bath times and there was a whole article about she has these huge bathtubs and ones made out of marble and it’s got the beautiful view. What I mean? She got what millions if not billions of dollars, right? So, bath time for her is huge. Well, guess what? Visualizing in my mind Oprah Winfrey in a bathtub is not my idea of a pleasurable experience. All apologies, I’m not mister anything noble to look at or whatever, but you get my point.

Jacob: I get your point.

Timothy: Doctor Phil on the other hand he manipulates people for entertainment. Is he correct and a lot of things? Yeah, he’s factually correct, but it’s all for entertainment purpose.

Jacob: To make money.

Timothy: Yes, and it’s exaggerating everything else so you’re bringing in his viewpoint his falsely. So, I don’t know this judge knows this, but this is really pretty slight. Because what you have is the emotionalism of Oprah, because that’s what she is. It’s not about facts. Right, her talk shows aren’t really about, well, let’s dive into this issue and look at other sides and here’s the facts, right? It’s all an emotional thing.

Timothy: Correct.

Jacob: The flowers are good today this is a nice bathtub. I’m a millionaire. I bring you entertainment. I mean, I know they’re mixing in social. It’s all in the guys really of feelings, right?

Jacob: Correct.

Timothy: On the other hand, you have Doctor Phil who’s at least thought of as factual, psychological analysis. You’re bringing in two different viewpoints and this will give the jury pool that it’s already susceptible being manipulated. Both the feelings, the self-righteous feelings of Oprah and the false logic of Doctor Phil brought into a courtroom. It really is a very sinister type mixing. They couldn’t go. We’re going to do a Freudian type experiment here in order to determine whether. You know what I’m saying? So, that the they don’t even realize these prosecutors is maybe they do. I don’t know how far the corruption goes. But by the time you participated in this group encounter, it’s not just a group encounter or uncomfortable. It is deep seated psychological manipulation. Do I need to recap that again?

Jacob: No, it makes sense.

Timothy: That’s enough then for the case to be thrown out. Never should happen. But this whole thing is corrupt from beginning then. Anything else on that Jacob?

Jacob: No.

Timothy: Once again, I am not about to expose my life to a group of people I do not even know, and in front of police or judges or prosecutors that are can turn with a vengeance, whether they have evidence and just tear your life, tear all the meat off of your life. Even if you’re found innocent, you can go to trial and you’re found not guilty. They’ve torn you apart everything is destroyed by them. These are ruthless people, and they’re walking in a jury pool. Please understand your best prosecutors are your good old boys. They come across all nice. The best judge that in terms of you want information, this is just a well-known. You play mister nice guy. This stuff is massively corrupting and you’re placing yourself at a huge disadvantage by letting judges and other people know. Not to mention now you have group thing going on, because the people they’re going to choose they’re only going to choose those that are highly likely to go along with the group and to go along with the group of the states.

So, they all these people that are finally chosen out of this Oprah, Doctor Phil, all the other manipulations give to the child court thing and all the different things that they’ve done. They’re highly conducive just to do exactly what the state wants to do without a dissenting voice or discussion or anything else. Let me put it more in perspective this way. If you serve on a jury pool, you least need one person going back into the jury room asking critical questions, thinking questions. They don’t want, the state doesn’t want you do that. For example, Jacob when you and I discuss, do I not tell you what I’m about to tell you I don’t fully believe. So, we go out of our box we go out, no I wouldn’t say we go to the extreme but we’ll go into discussions and I’m looking for loopholes or weakness and then what I currently believe.

Jacob: Correct, analytical.

Timothy: Analytical. That’s how you come to decisions. So, you’re fresh in a jury pool. The prosecution gets the last word, of course. The defense doesn’t. Of course not. The defense never gets the last word. The prosecutor. So, the emotions are hype. They figured you out. They’ve gone through this whole process. They’re giving you the summation. They’re going through all the and the and the trial that we went on, the prosecutors totally change the testimony of the person that made the accusation. There’s no rebuttal because they are the last ones that get to speak. So, among the many, many, many, many, lies the jury pool went back in with the prosecution, King County prosecutors finished up with this colossal lie that easily could have reshaped the lie that was already there. You get my point. Do you need somebody in that courtroom that’s sitting down going, okay, let’s even though I might agree that he’s guilty, let’s start with that assumption. Let’s go back and look at all the evidence and make sure that we’re actually looking at real evidence here. Let’s pretend that person’s lying, let’s pretend the state’s got it wrong. Let’s pretend that the person that testified or didn’t testified as innocent, innocent to proven guilty concept.

When you go through all of that process, then you come to the conclusion, well, no they’re guilty because everything else has been shut down. Or you go, you know what? There’s too much reasonable doubt in this situation so they’re not guilty. Make sense?

Jacob: Make sense.

Timothy: I’m the exact kind of person and anybody who gets close to what I’m saying, you’re not even going to get close. Like I said, even if I was Jesus said to be as shrewd as a snake and innocence as a dove let’s say I could just kind of do that we got to the Oprah, it would take the power of God from my face not to portray like doing what and we’re going where.

Jacob: Correct.

Timothy: So, and I’m not saying it couldn’t happen and it’s worth a try. I’m not telling you stay home from jury duty but if you think you’ve got the grace of God, you better make sure you have the grace of God. Go get into the jury pool and start bringing justice back into the courtroom. Any comments or anything on that, Jacob?

Jacob: No.

Timothy: Alright, let’s keep pressing on.

Jan: I thought it was very odd too that you would use like TV personalities in a courtroom.

Jacob: Sure.

Jan: And that’s the method that we’re using.

Jacob: Yeah, that’s our method. Okay, so we’re doing the Oprah Doctor Phil method. There’s no music this is not production, right?

Jan: Right.

Jacob: Okay. So, then what happens?

Jan: Okay, well a couple other things I want to say about the about that method and he said if you don’t participate in the discussion then you will be singled out for questioning.

Timothy: Well, okay what? Run that by me again Jacob. What did she just say?

Jacob: If you don’t participate, they’re going to ask you questions.

Timothy: Okay. Pretty much take back a good third like maybe the judge is doing something. He said they know what they’re doing. You’re threatening the prosecutor and the judge to single you out and go for you. You don’t, okay nobody should be doubting that juries are being manipulated to the max. This is coming in with the white coat thing, this is coming in with the letter of the law. This is like you’re going to get my full attention. How many people do you know Jacob, that can turn and look at a judge or a prosecutor in the face and tell them the truth without fear?

Jacob: Oh, nobody. You’re afraid. Of course, you’re going to even if you do tell the truth, there’s I mean it’s, yeah, the whole, I mean he’s sitting there on the bench with the power. He could, judge can hold you in contempt to court.

Timothy: Yeah.

Jacob: Of course, you’re going to be fearful.

Timothy: Man, how many court cases should just be declared illegal and those people go for it?

Jacob: Well, see because I think that they know that and then so this is all part of their jury selection process because then when you’re called upon, they know the person is nervous. So then, I mean again, unless you have the grace of God to sneak on to that jury, you’re going to answer honestly when they call on you and you’re on the spot, right? You’re going to babble out something and then that gives them, that’s the tell, right? That’s the oh well then, we don’t like this guy. We’ll be sure and get rid of this guy. Because you will be called upon.

Timothy: We will single you out.

Jacob: Yeah. Those are against.

Timothy: That’s a threat.

Jacob: Well, but because they want to know. Yeah, I mean they want to manipulate. They want to decide who’s in there. Who’s not on there and if you’re too quiet we’re going to find out.

Timothy: Well, it was worse than that. Not too quiet. If you just kind of refuse, I hear you. We’re saying the same, if you refuse to participate…

Jacob: Yeah, if you don’t raise your paddle, you have a number. That’s what she’s describing. If you if then we’re going to find out. Because they want to know. Because that they’re there to control it.

Timothy: Let me catch my breath on this one.

Jacob: Well, so okay, so you’re saying I mean again I 100% agree with you that the corruption is ridiculously deep. I mean if somebody is, I understand that they will want to ask somebody questions who hasn’t asked any questions don’t you want to find out what’s in the, no, I agree it’s all corrupt. What they’re doing, but they do want to find out who’s here.

Timothy: No, you’re giving him way too much credit.

Jacob: So, the person should allow to be completely silent.

Timothy: Well, sure.

Jacob: Okay.

Timothy: That is my response.

Jacob: Okay.

Timothy: He says, we’re going to do this and this. You’re supposed to be who you are in this encounter group, right?

Jacob: Yeah.

Timothy: Well, who I am is I don’t participate in those things. Who I am is I don’t explain why I don’t participate in these things unless I want to and I’m certainly not afraid of the judge in any way. I shouldn’t have to explain myself. What he, no, no, this is very very deep dark, twisted psychology. He can say it with a smile. He can give you the white horse like well we just want to know why and what for and all that kind of stuff. Look, it doesn’t matter. Anybody who doesn’t step up to the plate to participate in this is already told the state they don’t want to play the game.

Jacob: Correct. So, they don’t want to be there. Even if they don’t agree with what’s being said. Someone who’s silent doesn’t want to be there.

Timothy: Well correct. So, my point is he didn’t have to say, we will single you out.

Jacob: Correct.

Timothy: Because you got your answer if you say Those who don’t participate, that is an answer.

Jacob: That isn’t, correct.

Timothy: And so, all they have to do is ignore you.

Jacob: So then well, so are you saying that then if the person doesn’t say anything than that which I agree that is the answer.

Timothy: That is the answer.

Jacob: The prosecutor could decide to just do away with them.

Timothy: Correct. There’s no need to go to the threat level.

Jacob: Well, oh well.

Timothy: We’ll single you out. You see what I’m saying? They’re making you participate.

Jacob: Well, I’m just going on the flip side. See but because it’s also darker on the sense that they still don’t know that maybe that person is just in shell shock for being there for the first time. The person is quiet so maybe they really do. You know what I mean? Maybe they really do love this Oprah Wimpy thing, like they agree. You know what I mean? They could still be a deep-seated Democrat and still be quiet and they would still want them.

Timothy: Yeah, but there’s no need to take the state and the energy to try and figure that out. Let’s just say they’re shy or let’s just say…

Jacob: Oh, you have people super introverted like democratic.

Timothy: Well sure, I just want to do that. Well, technically by not responding, you’re saying, I’m not qualified to be on the jury pool. Because you don’t want a bunch of million-mile people who are too shy to respond in the jury pool. You need people that are supposedly thinking and going at it. Did that make sense? in other words, all I’m saying again and again is if a person doesn’t answer or doesn’t participate, that is an answer.

Jacob: Correct. Oh no, I agree with that. I get what you’re saying.

Timothy: So, for the judge or and really when you say judge, you mean prosecutor and judge to say what they do. That is a huge threat. You’ve not only opened yourself up to who your friends are or what you do or saying something you don’t want to say to a person that will immediately go we will single you out. There there’s no other way around that. Am I missing something there?

Jacob: Nope.

Timothy: Wow. Amazing. Jan actually did really well. She eventually speaks up, which really proves to me at this point. She really had a good decent courage, because he’s already threatened, she just not really picking up on us not really influence her like that. And part of the reason for that is because what we went through was horrendous false wrong and criminal. It’s really hard to keep silent. You’d be in massive sin to be silent. So, it just kind of burst out with her. But at this point this is like, man, and you combine this with kid’s court dogs in court, the manipulation and the power and the money of the prosecutor’s office, the authority’s figure, the judge. You start adding all this up, the questionnaire, the donating, the not donating, the cramped rooms, explaining nothing, keeping people confused, bringing them in. They’re so befuddled by the time they actually get on the jury pool. They’re, he isn’t susceptible just because emotionally they’ve been racked over the coal so to speak and we’ll just pretty much do what the state wants them to accept. Make sense?

Jacob: Yep.

Timothy: Alright. Anything else before we press on?

Jacob: Nope.

Timothy: Alright. Look, if you’re going to jury, this is not of the norm. This is like everywhere. You just haven’t experienced it and now watch out for these. Press on, Jacob.

Jacob: Oh, so if you never raise your card, they’re going to come ask you questions.

Jan: Yes, they’re going to come ask you questions yeah, and then he just goes, okay and the whole purpose of this is for the judge, the prosecutor, and the defense attorney to determine if each juror would be right for this case.

Jacob: Oh, okay.

Timothy: As a side note they always throw in for the jurors. I remember the dogs in court, they Sell a lie to the Supreme Court. You know what I’m talking about? They bring in someone who’s testifying can have a comfort dog sitting there on their lap while they and as if, oh no that won’t affect the jury. No, it only affects the person testifying. Therefore, it has an effect. And whoever can walk by a cute little puppy or a dog and your kid goes only one puppy and not least be moved to get the dog. You got to come up with excuses, right?

Jacob: Yeah.

Timothy: Anyway, they have the Supreme Court in their colossal corruption say oh yeah you can bring dog into court. Why dialogue with the dog’s people in court? And they always throw out, well, the defense can request the dog and so on and so forth. Why kept hammering the questions? And eventually the woman that is in charge is kind of blew up. And what I got back was the truth of where her heart was. She believes that everybody that’s accused that requires a dog in court is guilty. So, the whole facade is a lie about well the defense can do this. Look the defense doesn’t have the money. It doesn’t have the authority. It doesn’t even have the illusion of authority toward the jury pool. Think about that. You’ve got that judge saying, we will single you out. You’ve got the prosecutor saying this is a dog and pony show for which is true. They’re coming across and they are in total control. You’re in the courthouse. All those things. There’s nothing but diminishing the defense.

So yeah, they can say all day long. Well, the defense is there to choose and so it’s very minimal the power that the defense has. It’s almost not even worth mentioning.

Jacob: Yeah.

Timothy: Wait, what was that list again? Well, wait. Who gets to determine? Who’s determining?

Jan: Now the judge, the prosecutor, and the defense attorney.

Jacob: Okay. They all get a veto. Is that what that meant? They could all, okay.

Jan: Yeah.

Jacob: Alright.

Timothy: Okay, let me pause there because we’re kind of running on some time, Jacob. Do we understand this all looks equal at this point, right? They each get so many choices.

Jacob: Yeah.

Timothy: Right? It’s a delusion because have they not from the time you and before you even show up at that courthouse gone through the weeding process to keep away people they don’t want?

Jacob: Oh yeah, I mean there the favor is heavily slated towards the state, which includes the judge. The state or whether it’s the county, the county employs both the judge and the prosecutor. So, it’s already out of the supposed 3 individuals here right, between people. Well, they already have the upper hand. They work for the same people.

Timothy: Yeah, and the people that…

Jacob: They get paid for the same accounts.

Timothy: And the defense has to choose from the worst of the crop the state allowed in.

Jacob: They’re just trying to do away with yeah, they’re trying to obviously win a case for their client, but they get the, I don’t know second pickings or. You know what I mean?

Timothy: Yeah, and I’m not even trying, this would never work. But okay, let’s be fair there should be offsite the defense ought to be able to go find 6 jurors that they choose in their own setting to be honest, and then we’ll let the state choose their 6.

Jacob: Exactly.

Timothy: That’s at least be a little more fair.

Jacob: It would be more fair. If you get to bring in your 6 and we get to bring in our 6 and who is going to, and then they can hash it out.

Timothy: Correct.

Jacob: Yeah.

Timothy: Then at least.

Jacob: That would at least be fair.

Timothy: Doesn’t matter. That sounds like so reasonable.

Jacob: Like a football team, right? Like you get to practice you’re on this team.

Timothy: Yeah.

Jacob: We each have our teams and then we come together. But yeah, no it’s not like that at all.

Timothy: And I know there be so many objections like well the defense then is essentially paying for they could pay for whatever. Oh, what you don’t think the state is giving people benefits?

Jacob: Correct.

Timothy: They’re not going down the list going how many benefits you receive from the state.

Jacob: Sure.

Timothy: And we’re going to pay you, we want your money. We’re rehashing it. We’re going to need to pause here I think we’ve gone a little bit long. So, Jacob, take us out of here.

Closing: This has been the Consider Podcast with your hosts Timothy and Jacob where the whole gospel message has been used to examine today’s wisdom, folly, and madness. For more information, drop by www.consider.info. The Consider Podcast, examining today’s wisdom, folly, and madness with the whole gospel.


King County Judge Marlin J. Appelwick, King County Judge Ronald E. Cox, King County Preacher Timothy Williams, Www. enumclaw.com, Seattle, City of Enumclaw, Washington, King County, Sound Doctrine Church, Sound Doctrine Christian Church, the Salt Shaker, Winepress Publishing, Redemption Press, Governor Jay Inslee, Enumclaw Hate Crime, Judge Susan Craighead, King County, Prosecutor Dan Satterberg, Prosecutor David Seaver, Prosecutor Jason Simmons, Prosecutor Lisa Johnson, Prosecutor Mark Larson, Prosecutor Nicole Weston, Prosecutor Rich Anderson, Seattle, Washington State, Timothy Williams, Sound Doctrine Cult, Sound Doctrine Church, Washington State Bar Association, Wsba.org, Office and Conference Center Location Washington State Bar Association 1325 Fourth Ave., Suite 600 Seattle, Wa 98101-2539 , Preacher Timothy Williams, Paul G. Sewell Attorney Prosecutor, Dog and Pony Show, Washington State Judge Lori K. Smith, King County Prosecutors, Enumclaw City Council, Anthony Wright Beau Chevassus, Chance La Fleur, Commander Tim Floyd, Enumclaw Attorney Mike Reynolds, Hoke Overland, Kael Johnson, Kyle Jacobson, Tony Binion, King County Committee, King County Judge Marlin J. Appelwick, King County Judge Ronald E. Cox, King County Judge Stephen J. Dwyer, Full Circle Athena Dean Holtz Redemption, King County Superior Court, State of Washington, Plaintiff, V. Malcolm Fraser, Defendant Cause No. 12-1-01886-0 Knt, Court of Appeals State of Washington, Respondent, V. Malcolm Fraser, Appellant, No. 70702-7-1, Ian Goodhew King County Prosecutor Washington State, Justice Stephen J. Dwyer Enumclaw Police Department 1705 Wells St. Enumclaw, Wa 98022 City Enumclaw Attorney Mike Reynolds, City of Enumclaw Washington, Seattle, King County, Chief of Police City of Enumclaw Washington, Seattle, King County Floyd, Tim Commander City of Enumclaw Washington, Seattle, King County, Berean Baptist Church 9702 128th St. E Puyallup, Wa 98373 Po Box 73042 Puyallup, Wa 98373 Phone: 253-841-4100 E-mail: [email protected] Fentanyl Attorney General Bob Ferguson Washington State sane border crusher, grandma destroyer, free speech oppressor, user of the poor has done. Prosecuting Attorney Office: Miss Leesa Manion brags, boasts and marches in pride that she is a woman holding power. No man can expect a fair judgment as she adds to the corruption of Dan Satterberg and Enumclaw Detective Grant McCall in leaps and bounds. With a nonsense boast about being a woman so too just as Satan fell from heaven because he was full of pride about himself he then became the father of lies. See John 8:44


The Consider Podcast attempts to express opinions through God’s holiness. Nothing concerning justice or injustice should be taken as legal advice or a call to action. There is no political agenda. There is no individual moral life advice. Indeed, each person is solely responsible before God and man for their actions or inactions. The Consider Podcast is narrowly focused on one thing, and only one thing – the need for all to surrender to a life of repentance according to the whole gospel.

The Consider Podcast
Examining today’s wisdom, folly and madness with the whole gospel.

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